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Lets be historically incorrect for a min or two.... (pg. 4)
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by metalgearsolid
Were your parents Jews, would that be why they kicked you out of the house? |
No Jewish roots whatsoever. Enough anti-semitism on this forum, OK???? I am sick of all this hatred. off. |
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| metalgearsolid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
No Jewish roots whatsoever. Enough anti-semitism on this forum, OK???? I am sick of all this hatred. off. |
I hate hatred too. And was wondering as to why he thought you were a jew and just why are you so offended? |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by metalgearsolid
I hate hatred too. And was wondering as to why he thought you were a jew and just why are you so offended? |
This hatred of people based on their religious, ethnic preferences. Thats one of the things tearing Russia up right now. If you've only seen the things I've seen ... |
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| metalgearsolid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
This hatred of people based on their religious, ethnic preferences. Thats one of the things tearing Russia up right now. If you've only seen the things I've seen ... |
Like what.....? |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by metalgearsolid
Like what.....? |
Like Nazi skinheads attacking in broad daylight and beating up a Jewish priest, or a train conductor refusing service to a Muslim, or a Georgian by nationality family getting murdered by a lunatic Abkhaz because he hates their people for killing his family in Georgia-Abkhaz war of 1993 (which happened in a different country).
Or even a senior Russian military officer of Chinese origins refused to an elite police unit for what he accused was discrimination.
There was so much distrust and fear between ethnic groups in Russia in 1990s when I lived there. I think, I hope it is much better now |
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| Aquadyne |
| quote: | | Sorry, it was 500,000 Soviet POWs in the early months of the war, not 5 million, I misplaced a 0 in my memory ;-) Yes, the Soviets had a very powerful military machine - but it was so effective and smooth that nearly 11 million Soviets troops died, and Stalin's idiotic commands led to many stupid deaths. Allies on the Western front and Pacific fronts have lost significantly less troops ;-) |
We are not comparing the Red Army of 1941-42 when the VAST majority of those losses took place. We are talking about the Red Army of 1944-1945. A much better equipped, trained and organized army by far.
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LOL, you are wrong about Allies on Western front facing "inexperienced" Nazi generals. Here's one of the famous Nazi generals who defeated Allied forces ten times his numerical size: |
I wasn't talking about the generals, I was talking about the TROOPS. Although the lack of solid generals on Western Front was true as well. Why don't you mention the elderly being drafted into the Volkssturme to fight the war or 15 year old boys being dragged off to the 12th SS Division Hitler Jugend? Or 14 year old boys on bicycles with Panzerfausts making a last ditch stand in German cities?
| quote: | | As for Suvorov, he is a former GRU agent, and fled to West in 1980s. He does does have strong credibility, and unline Litvinenko who was a fool who became famous, Suvorov he was never assassinated by the Soviets though he did possess bigger secrets, publishing in his book ;-) |
That's the problem, Suvorov doesn't have credibility from anyone. No more credibility than Ostrovsky does for supposedly exposing the Mossad's inner workings.
When I was finishing up my history degree, Suvorov occassionally came up in the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact discussions largely as a joke or a pun. He hardly has any credibility in academia.
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I find it offensive that you are labeling me as a Jew or an asylum seeker. First of all, I am Eastern Orthodox and I came to Canada with my parents when I was 13. |
I figured as much. And there are plenty of "jews" who are eastern orthodox, they fled here right after the collapse of USSR as asylum seekers. They are all over Chicago here and there's plenty in canada too. I was going to peg your arrival here during the first post-Soviet wave of immigration around 1994-96 but didn't want to be presumptuous.
I really don't care much - but I find that it's usually Jewish emigres who scream the loudest about Soviet ineptitude and Soviet incompetence as a way to feel better about themselves. Kinda like you. The fact that you originally come from Sochi only serves to largely reinforce that. |
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| Aquadyne |
| quote: | | If you've only seen the things I've seen ... |
Dude, you lived in Sochi.
That's like someone living in Malibu during the Iraq War and going "If you only had seen the things I have seen when my country was at war"
For those unaware, Sochi was THE spot for resort/beach vacations in the entire USSR. Typically that's where all the dignitaries, nomenklatura, apparatchiks and Politburo members would build their private dachas and take in the mud baths.
It still is a highly prized piece of real estate and a huge tourist spot for Russians.
Plus, you were 13 you left. |
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| Dopey |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
There was so much distrust and fear between ethnic groups in Russia in 1990s when I lived there. I think, I hope it is much better now[/COLOR] |
what do you expect after 70 years of there being one, government appointed religion? |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aquadyne
We are not comparing the Red Army of 1941-42 when the VAST majority of those losses took place. We are talking about the Red Army of 1944-1945. A much better equipped, trained and organized army by far.
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Agreed.
| quote: |
I wasn't talking about the generals, I was talking about the TROOPS. Although the lack of solid generals on Western Front was true as well. Why don't you mention the elderly being drafted into the Volkssturme to fight the war or 15 year old boys being dragged off to the 12th SS Division Hitler Jugend? Or 14 year old boys on bicycles with Panzerfausts making a last ditch stand in German cities?
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Yeah, like that didnt happen on the Eastern front :rolleyes: :stongue: In early desperate stages of the war, very young Russian men and women, and older veterans fought against advancing Germans troops. Dont remember that?
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I figured as much. And there are plenty of "jews" who are eastern orthodox, they fled here right after the collapse of USSR as asylum seekers. They are all over Chicago here and there's plenty in canada too. I was going to peg your arrival here during the first post-Soviet wave of immigration around 1994-96 but didn't want to be presumptuous.
I really don't care much - but I find that it's usually Jewish emigres who scream the loudest about Soviet ineptitude and Soviet incompetence as a way to feel better about themselves. Kinda like you. The fact that you originally come from Sochi only serves to largely reinforce that. |
Actually, I lost my great-grandfather and half of his family in that war. My family used to live in Krasnodar, and my grand-grandfather died in the defense of Novorossiysk, one of the toughest and most brutal battles of WW2. My roots were in the Cossacks, and the ing communists nearly destroyed our proud cossack communities after the Revolution for support the Whites. Just because I am from a smaller city and I came to Canada in 1997 doesnt mean I didnt see all the Soviet lies, corruption, executions, scandals, and what happened in Russia in early 1990s. I've seen it all. I have first hand experience. Its definitely not what the television screen show you, but much worse.
I am a Russian patriot at heart, I hated Soviets for ruining my country, oppressing the people, and murdering tens of millions of civilians all because of paranoia, in addition to all the forced migrations.
Communists sluaghtered over 5 million Cossacks after 1918, including my grandfather who was taken in the middle of the night once and never seen again. No wonder why today there Caucasus is volatile. |
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| Aquadyne |
| quote: | | Yeah, like that didnt happen on the Eastern front In early desperate stages of the war, very young Russian men and women, and older veterans fought against advancing Germans troops. Dont remember that? |
That's not the thrust of the argument. We are talking about the quality of troops that the US/UK forces faced upon invading Europe. The fact is that the Red Army broke the back of the German Wehrmacht by 1944. Their elite, cream-of-the-crop troops. What the US/UK forces faced on Western Front was what Germany already began scraping the bottom of the barrel for.
So what we have here is you arguing that the fact that US/UK forces destroying 100+ divisions of mostly inexperienced troops is somehow an advantage over the Red Army destroying over 600+ divisions of mostly trained and experienced troops. This does not follow logic.
Unless I am missing something? Enlighten me.
| quote: | | Actually, I lost my great-grandfather and half of his family in that war. My family used to live in Krasnodar, and my grand-grandfather died in the defense of Novorossiysk, one of the toughest and most brutal battles of WW2. My roots were in the Cossacks, and the ing communists nearly destroyed our proud cossack communities after the Revolution for support the Whites. Just because I am from a smaller city and I came to Canada in 1997 doesnt mean I didnt see all the Soviet lies, corruption, executions, scandals, and what happened in Russia in early 1990s. I've seen it all. I have first hand experience. Its definitely not what the television screen show you, but much worse. |
Novorossiysk? One of the toughest and most brutal battles of WW2? HAHAHAHAHHAHA. You certainly have a flair for exagerration.
And now you admit to having a massive anti-Soviet bias as well. Good on you, at least I can see now that you're arguing from an OBJECTIVE point of view. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aquadyne
That's not the thrust of the argument. We are talking about the quality of troops that the US/UK forces faced upon invading Europe. The fact is that the Red Army broke the back of the German Wehrmacht by 1944. Their elite, cream-of-the-crop troops. What the US/UK forces faced on Western Front was what Germany already began scraping the bottom of the barrel for.
So what we have here is you arguing that the fact that US/UK forces destroying 100+ divisions of mostly inexperienced troops is somehow an advantage over the Red Army destroying over 600+ divisions of mostly trained and experienced troops. This does not follow logic.
Unless I am missing something? Enlighten me.
Novorossiysk? One of the toughest and most brutal battles of WW2? HAHAHAHAHHAHA. You certainly have a flair for exagerration.
And now you admit to having a massive anti-Soviet bias as well. Good on you, at least I can see now that you're arguing from an OBJECTIVE point of view. |
I think what you're implying is that Soviet Union played the most important role in defeating Nazi Germany. But you have no proof that on the Western front German armies had much less-experienced generals or ranks filled with kids because both East and West fronts had same scenarios except Wehrmacht concentrated most of its armies in the East. The only reason why Germans "lacked" support in the western front is because in the east they were concentrating most of their forces fighting with soviets, while in the west they had to fight the combined Canadian, American, British, French, Australian and other forces, which outnumbered Germans throughout the war.
"Desert Fox" German general is an example of one of several western front German generals who was quite brilliant.
As for Novorossiyk, according to Wikipedia:
"The city of Novorossiysk on the Eastern coast of the Black Sea provided a stronghold against the German summer offensive of 1942. Intense fighting in and around the city lasted from August until September 1942. The Soviets however retained possession of the Eastern part of the bay, which prevented the Germans from using the port for supply shipments. Novorossiysk was awarded the title Hero City in 1973."
Only 14 cities were awarded this prestigious title by Soviets, rightfully so, seeing fierce fighting, defenders stopped Nazi expansion into Caucasus, as even taught in Soviet history books ;-) |
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| Dopey |
:stongue: Chechnyaplutonium just got
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