|
Do you support racial profiling of Arabs/Muslims? (pg. 5)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| venomX |
| quote: | Originally posted by NeoPhono
Seriously people, keep this civil.
Playing devils (or sterilis') advocate...
If you have a threat, and limited resources available to fight that threat, does it not make sense to target your resources in the most probable areas?
For instance, if a particular area of a city has a high crime rate, and the police increase their patrols in that area, does that qualify as profiling?
In both circumstances you're using what you have in the most efficient manner by looking at past trends and concentrating your efforts in the most likely of places. |
This is true, but i don't agree with the current implementation, it is half thought and poorly implemented. A more comprehensive and well developed strategy that would minimize inconvinience for low probability target needs to be developed for people to agree with it. |
|
|
| sterilis |
| quote: | Originally posted by hadi ******
the quran doesn't (up to my knowledge) promise anyone 70 virgins in heaven. and that other part is probably a poor translation. did you know when islam first started, they took in jews and christians into their cities and lived amongst them as friends. in the quran, it says people of the book are christians, jews and muslims. all religions of the same God. do some research instead of taking the first thing you see to fit your narrow point of view. also, if you want to quote the quran, try getting a new version of it and checking how those are translated. even then some of the translations are wrong.
edit: thnx shaolin_Z for posting that |
everything can be translating in some way.
also if the quran had been updated and things changed which people follow it again emphasises the stupidity of the belief in it. |
|
|
| venomX |
| quote: | Originally posted by sterilis
everything can be translating in some way.
|
Genius! You must be truly enlightened! Everything can be translated in some way. Everything can be interpreted in some way! If that is the case then, you have absolutely no argument against most of the muslim population because they properly translate the Koran, you would have a problem with the fundies, so maybe your post should reflect that eh. |
|
|
| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by sterilis
everything can be translating in some way.
also if the quran had been updated and things changed which people follow it again emphasises the stupidity of the belief in it. |
It hasn't, maybe you missed my post. It's still remains in it's original language, Arabic, preserved in it's original form. Translation are just that, translations, not the actual Quran itself. And I'm not saying this because I'm Muslim. You can ask any respected scholar on this subject, Muslim or not, and they'll tell you the same thing. |
|
|
| sterilis |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
It hasn't, maybe you missed my post. It's still remains in it's original language, Arabic, preserved in it's original form. Translation are just that, translations, not the actual Quran itself. And I'm not saying this because I'm Muslim. You can ask any respected scholar on this subject, Muslim or not, and they'll tell you the same thing. |
so how come theres always talk about these 70 virgins. give the the real interpretation of it and where people have misunderstood it. |
|
|
| sterilis |
| quote: | Originally posted by venomX
Genius! You must be truly enlightened! Everything can be translated in some way. Everything can be interpreted in some way! If that is the case then, you have absolutely no argument against most of the muslim population because they properly translate the Koran, you would have a problem with the fundies, so maybe your post should reflect that eh. |
in some way i meant that it can be translated into another language word for word very easily. |
|
|
| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by sterilis
so how come theres always talk about these 70 virgins. give the the real interpretation of it and where people have misunderstood it. |
That one I'm not sure about, so I'll need to research it properly to do any justice to it in a response. But I'll tell you this much. Suicide is strictly forbiden in Islam and is pretty much a one way ticket to hell, not terribly different from the Judeo-Christian take on it. Plus, the term 'jihad' means 'struggle', not holy war, like 'struggling' to be a better person for example. It is true that this 'struggle' can manifest itself in many different forms, including a call to arms. But there's tons of restriction on what considered legitimate warfare and what isn't, and warfare is only allowed as a last resort against an agressor for self preservation. Killing women, children, the elderly, defensless civilians, or anyone who doesn't pose any actual physical threat, or destroying property for example are strictly forbidden and akin to war crimes. Engaging in any one of those actions automatically makes a legitimate armed struggle illegitimate in an Islamic context, so it's no longer Jihad and is considered an act of agression. Which is why I have to laugh when people call terrorism/suicide bombings Jihad, far from it. So even what 'colateral damage' is really against the spirit of armed jihad and a violation of it's principles. Here's a verse from the Quran that partially addresses what I just mentioned:
"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not do aggression, for Allah loves not the aggressors. Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers." [Al-Baqarah 190-193]
Keep in mind the context of this Surah and period of revelation was at a time when Muslims were being persecuted and driven out of their respective homes, cities, and villages.
Anways, I sort of digressed there. No, I'm not entirely sure about the '70 virgins' bit so I won't say anything about that. What I do know for a fact is that if you're slain in [a legitimate defensive and non-agressive] battle or because just you happen to be a Muslim, is considered martyrdom. And martyrs are promised paradise. Any language used to describe that reward isn't necessarily meant to be interpreted literally. For example, it makes little sense to perceive heaven as being a place where literally "river of milk and honey flow" beneath whatever it was (I can't recall what the verse was at this moment). |
|
|
| Zild |
| quote: | Originally posted by sterilis
in some way i meant that it can be translated into another language word for word very easily. |
From a linguistic standpoint no not everything can be translated into any other language word for word very easily. All languages have a different set of words. Some of which don't have any word for word translation in any other language, and many of which even if there is a word for word translation the meaning is still diminished in comparison to the original. |
|
|
| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
I'm a little sick of both non-Muslims and Muslims being clubbed on the head with a distorted misrepresentation of the meaning of this verse to promote distrust and/or hatred. |
You're getting me more and more interested on the Arabic language :) |
|
|
| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
You're getting me more and more interested on the Arabic language :) |
Haha :)! I knew the linguistic aspect of this would get your attention immediately :D. |
|
|
| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Haha :)! I knew the linguistic aspect of this would get your attention immediately :D. |
Sometimes I feel I'm so predictable :p
But, yeah, I really do think that this is one of the most overlooked issues in several conflicts... as I previously said in the c0re:
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
While you bring us the raw realities here, don't forget that [distorted] semantics and terminology are some of the most subtle tools responsible for such situation ;) |
I firmly believe that, and your post kinda stressed that point :) |
|
|
| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by NeoPhono
Seriously people, keep this civil.
Playing devils (or sterilis') advocate...
If you have a threat, and limited resources available to fight that threat, does it not make sense to target your resources in the most probable areas? |
I guess it does make sense to abandon certain principles. But all that reflects is that the said pricniple wasn't truly a principle of a said person/group to being with. |
|
|
|
|
