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139BPM-DEEP Trance-in AVB style
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| HarryMoore |
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]
UPDATED >SEE BELOW SOMEWHARE<
its still work in progress, im relying on you guys for a few ideas
Name: ellaborate
Genre: Trance
Bitrate: 320
Do I like fatty food: yes
cheers |
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| Akia |
Good, driving kick! I like that mainsynth and the effects! But I think you could vary the melody more or maybe add a second one. A really nice job, anyway! :)
Takere!
Akia |
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| TonyZ |
I'd rate quite harshly in the spirit of constructive criticism...I hope you don't take much of this personally. There's a summary at the bottom that you can read if you want to skip my yammering or think i'm way too bigoted. ;)
Here goes.
1. (0:55) - I would start this song here - this is the establishment of your "driving" background and warms up the listener for the rest of the tune. I like what you've got going here but I think you need to bring the kick under control and give your hats and percussion more "oomph". You should add another "high" percussion layer with some tambourine/what I call "slash" hats (the ones with a longer release, usually open hats) to give more energy. I would add them in bursts of 2-3 each bar until you hit 0:56 at which I would have every piece of percussion going. It sounds like you're going for an energy piece, so I'd amp up your energy! The "tearing-buzz-saw" bassline is solid but needs a bit of volume and thickness, I'd add a maximizer and an Equalizer with a bit more EQ in the low end to make that your designated bass. It sounds good and I like it so make it more powerful! I also like the messy-robot noise but it sounds like it clips near the end.
2. (1:09 - 2:18) - This is your "teaser" section but I think it needs work. Mostly, your arpeggio synth is kind of gay - it's really fluffy and "tooty"- and it goes on for a whole minute with a sort of "pseudo-break" in the middle; as far as I'm concerned it's not really energy but more cheesy. Now I'm not saying "SYNTH WITHOUT ACCESS VIRUS = " but your arpeggio in a trance song must be solid - to me, it sounds like you're making a rock song with a Mandolin. You're breaking the rules and stuff, yeah, I can respect that, but it just doesn't work. Not for 1 minute, at least. So here's what I'd do (of course this is IMHO...):
- Frequency - I would take it down to the 1:19 - 1:20 level and set that as your max for this instrument for this part. It's enough so you still get the nice EDM sound but without the 'tincan' that adds to the cheese factor. Your attack and stuff sound good, maybe try going with a bit longer release to give it some body (this will remove a bit of "arpeggio pluck" so I'd bring in a little more of mid-lows with an EQ to fill out the sound at the start of the patch and then compress it to enhance attack, add fullness for duration/middle, then have a bit of body left at the end.)
- Delay - I find your delay predictable and standard-procedure. Delay panning - I really like this technique because it adds a sense of density to a song. With a single-delay type like your arpeggio uses, your sound becomes thin and linear - this is good if you're going for an ACID or TECHNO type because sometimes those songs require tight structure but a more energetic song needs to feel "bigger". That's my reasoning behind the invention of "supersaws" and the heavy use of Pads/delay/reverb in Trance/Energy - to build a "sonic world" for the 4 minutes that the song gets DJ'd for. Delay panning would sound really good for this arpeggio, you can keep it at the 3-step standard length and still add an extra dimension of sound. I know, that creating panned delays sucks ass for the most part (it's a lot of automating and stuff) and the built-in's usually sound like ass. But it's worth the extra work. I split my instrument final output to 2 delay insert effects, pan D1 left and D2 right, set the wetness high enough on each side for it to sound spread out(but not too spread) then adjust the output volume (if you don't have a volume, then just modulate your wet/dry keeping your wet to the maximum that sounds good) of each delay up and down with automation. It gives me complete control over my delays and if you do it right you can make really cool sounding sweeps during breakdowns etc.
- Reverb - just a touch of verb to your arpeggio will give it a ghostlier sound - this is independent of frequency though, so you could have a crushing/ripping saw that still echos a bit and gives a little surreal touch.
DISCLAIMER: WHEW! Don't I feel like a pro? But I'm really a noob so you don't have to listen to most of that...chances are you probably don't agree anyway. I can't tell you how to make your song but I feel those touches could add to your sound.
K so now you've got a good plucky arp that can run your melody whenever you need to have the "dooo-dooo-d-do!". I say the melody's overused in your build-up - it plays repeatedly until 2:50. It's a good little melody but I don't think your arpeggio instrument should drive your song like that. I don't really like that it's your lead. I do like it when the frequency cranks at 2:04 - but for that whole time it's like you sorta "needed filler" for the intro...it's ok for a trance song to last 4 minutes! As long as it's interesting. Your melody doesn't really have a satisfying "end" riff to close off the build-up. Like, you tried to switch it up at 1:48/1:50 but it didn't really do it for me. Also you change at 2:07-2:10 - to another open-ended melody that doesn't really "finish" the sound. Then you just fade it out until 2:50 - which sounds ok since you're bringing another motif into the song. But you overdid it at the start so now I'm noticing that your arpeggio is the LEAD and you're bringing in a secondary instrument for your breakdown...the buzzy thing at 2:48ish.
The buzzy thing is a FANTASTIC sound - for a background! It shouldn't be leading this PERFECT PLACE FOR A WICKED HUGE BREAKDOWN! From 2:46 to about 3:13 I would be PUMPING UP THE VOLUME! Bring in a killer sound(s)! This is your chance to have your main instrument and huge famous riff take over! The sound that makes your arpeggio sound friggin useless in comparison!
I mean, this is THE POINT where I think your song has potential. Since you are still amateur you can start by trying out a cool super-wave or super-saw. Stay away from the uber-cheese like Happy Hardcore or whatever - go for a grungy, ripping, "i'm here so off and listen to me now" instrument; you're going to need at least 2 pads in the background as well as a secondary bass and your buzzy thing, your huge sound, and some flair sounds like zipps or humms or whooshes, what have you - use your robot sound lots here with different effects on it. Reverse cymbals are clutch, throw one of those at the end of each build-up section. I usually go with a rule of 3 - one slow build up part with not very many instruments (sorta like a trance solo - it needs stuff backing it up but sounds REALLY cool without bass/rhythm/drums and just atmospheric sounds), then a cool build-up at the end of this section. Part 2 is the Bring in the Secondaries with some Drums and bass to back it up. Now you're really teasing your listener because the sound starts to really pop...finally, Part 3 of the breakdown is the "OMFG I'M GONNA POP IF THIS DOESN'T GO ALL OUT" section where you start rolling that bass/snare and DJ your instruments before you put the HUGE DROP that rocks the house...
Now ing pour everything you've got into the climax that comes at the end of 3!!! The break has set you up for success here if you did it properly - you've got the tension so high that you just need to RELEASE everything you've got into this part of the song.
I mean, I can see this song kicking some serious ass at the drop that would come around 3:48. (incidentally this is where you decided to drop...but it's just not powerful..sorry to say. You go back to the dooo-dooo-d-do that I've heard for 1.5 mins already...and I still don't think this should be your lead.)
Of course, continue this imaginary climax for enough bars to be satisfying (but not too many, you want to hook your audience and want them to re-listen for the awesome climax, so you must give them JUST ENOUGH for them to climax then settle back down). Then it's just a matter of taking away your main synth and descending back down to a similar pace to the start of your song. You still have bits and pieces of your main sound but for the most part the ending replicates the beginning of the song.
Maybe what I've said will guide you to a cookie-cutter song - but there's a reason that Prog/Psy/Acid are produced and those are for mold-breaking - when I listen to your track it sounds like you're shooting for a Medium-Hard Trance (the popular stuff AvB plays on ASoT these days) and those work because they pack a lot of energy into a short time.
I think trance is popular because it has such a predicable zig-zag of "wait for it...wait for it..." to "OMFG *dance dance*". When you tease too much or drag out for too long you break that cycle so you have to be careful with experimenting.
SUMMARY ------------------------
In closing I hope you liked what I suggested for your track - here's a summary of things I'd change.
-cut everything before :41. Song doesn't change enough to warrant that 50 second intro. If you make a cool little "robot says go-[snap]!" intro sound then you can drop right into 0:41 and not have affected your song too much. As a good example of how to get right into things, look at Benny Bennassi - Satisfaction. If you start at the "wicka-wicka- Duh nuhhh nuhh" intro part, he brings in the bass and lead and drums no problem. Then the hats come in shortly, then a little bit with hats added, then comes a Break for the vocals.
(You can add DJ filler to the start when people are interested in live play. I think 16 bars intro is usually sufficient. Sometimes that's even too long, but it gives you enough space to add whatever background/driving instruments you need especially when you're demoing.)
-1:09 is a good place to start with your little arpeggio thingy. I wouldn't play it too much since this is just a little teaser section. Try not to vary your melody too much. I think at around 1:44 it would be a good time to introduce your fading for the break (a la 2:32). Everything after 1:44 just seems like filler till you hit the fade at 2:32. Right before the fade you want to add a Finisher riff that alleviates the musical tension. My lack of musical knowledge can't tell you what note to use (and is a good reason to take formal music education) but there are musical scales/modes that induce tension and ways to end those scales with notes to break the tension. Usually if you're going up the keyboard with your melody, then to break the tension you go down temporarily then back to a note just under your root note. I think..this is basically talking out of my ass but if you listen to songs a lot you will just "know" how to break tension.
-2:32 would be my choice as the start of the "break part 1". This has a little give: if you want to have a complete fade out like you do, I say go for it. It sounds good here till 2:45. Then you have your secondary buzzy thing come in and I think this is where you need to implement a killer instrument/break section. I would say constant build up to 3:13 before you bring in some percussion (break part 2), in a build-up style like you have. I do not like how you change at 3:34 - keep that builup from 3:27 going...keep it going to 3:45. The little sound in the background that starts at 3:30 is awesome but you shouldn't have changed at 3:34....BUILD BUILD BUILD THEN UNLEASH AT 3:48! Then climax here for whatever feels right, then after you've done just enough, start bringing the track back down. If you've done everything right your track will naturally become the right length - you should never feel like you "need" filler because it shows.
-MORE percussion! Layered drums are awesome. You don't have enough presence in the mid to mid-high range with hats/snare/claps/flair-percussion. It sounds like the drums were simply cut-n-pasted throughout the song. You should add bar-outro variations every 4th bar *at minimum* with double-snare-claps or drum breakbeats to lead to the next section, usually within the 3rd or 4th beat section of the 4th bar of a 16-beat section (one-2-3-4, two-2-3-4, three-2-3-4, four-2-(vary/3/and/4/to/lead/to/), CRASH-2-3-4, two-2-3-4 ...) My crappy knowledge of music theory can't tell you what notes to switch to during the variation (what I've written should be said within the span of 3-4,) but you can hear variations in every pro track and they add to the personality of a song.
-If you are weaker with drums then find a partner to produce with that maybe sucks at leads but is good with drums. There's no sense in trying to go solo if you just don't feel like you're good in that area, you'll just get frustrated. Many awesome producers are in a team - Gabriel&Dresden. Kayu vs. Albert. Anything with a vocalist. You get input from he/she that is valuable and makes your song really shine.
Good luck, don't shoot me please :( I'm trying too. |
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| mzvirbulis |
dude thumbs up to you my friend, that review has given me something to work with.
cheers
mattz
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| HarryMoore |
re tonyz:
mate you are a complete legend, completly agree with most of what you say. the problem is at the mo i have no monitors (using hd25's) and no plug ins so getting the right sound is tough.
that review is by far the best, most constuctive and useful ive ever read on tranceaddict, i owe you a beer |
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| TonyZ |
:toocool: thanks
I hope to hear the re-release soon
Don't set your standards too high yet - it takes a lot of practice and tinkering for me to even get a single instrument to sound proper; by then I have long given up on the song and moved on to another.
I've never posted a song on TA but I'm glad that guys like you do so that I can at least get motivated again to do this kind of thing.
And yes. Plugins are the most difficult thing to find (and even if you do, you're either paying for something you can't even test or buying the same thing 1000's of other people have already worked to death. Or it's free and really difficult.)
Keep at it, I'll be here looking for Ellabo.pt2
Kz |
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| mavve |
thats what I call a review mate hahahaha.
when are you gona do me im not kiding hahaha=)
I guess I dont have to add more to the review since tonyZ Basicly covered every aspect.
- Cheers! / Mavve |
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| HarryMoore |
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]
done a cheeky update....
things ive changed:
the name, its now called 'the roman road' after an infamous maket in london
the base, now got a offbeat driving baseline
the synths not so screatchy
breakdown has been destroyed and rebuilt
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still needs alot of work but I'm moving and wont be producing for several weeks |
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| TonyZ |
holy
a world of difference
you're on track now - i am impressed with the progression! in like what, 4 days? I'd change a few things and tighten it up, fatten some sounds...but way better than pt.1
i love the sound you got from that synth at 1:19-1:20 - really cool. The rest is still a little high for my tastes but it reminds me of those anthems back in 1999 (would sound cool if during the 1:22-1:34 did like a MARCO...POLO pan left/right - right calls and left answers)- good little nostalgia. and then you hit me with a sweet ing fade / solo 2:27 onward. Nice job. Love how it's grungy too. The bleep solo owned me. Sounded great, really atmospheric.
I love the filtered saw that I hear through the song ( emphasized at around 4:09). Good job with that. Love how it sometimes builds up to the next bar.
Nice, I like how you added the drum changeups too. I dunno if you noticed but it adds a HUGE touch to any song.
And I fricking love the end 5:38-6:30. Excellent lead out. So easy to mix, and you have possible drop points on your robot-sample. |
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| Enigmatic XTC |
| Nice track. I'm not going to try and add anything to tonyz stuff, but nice work. keep it up. |
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| HarryMoore |
| quote: | Originally posted by TonyZ
holy
a world of difference
you're on track now - i am impressed with the progression! in like what, 4 days? I'd change a few things and tighten it up, fatten some sounds...but way better than pt.1
i love the sound you got from that synth at 1:19-1:20 - really cool. The rest is still a little high for my tastes but it reminds me of those anthems back in 1999 (would sound cool if during the 1:22-1:34 did like a MARCO...POLO pan left/right - right calls and left answers)- good little nostalgia. and then you hit me with a sweet ing fade / solo 2:27 onward. Nice job. Love how it's grungy too. The bleep solo owned me. Sounded great, really atmospheric.
I love the filtered saw that I hear through the song ( emphasized at around 4:09). Good job with that. Love how it sometimes builds up to the next bar.
Nice, I like how you added the drum changeups too. I dunno if you noticed but it adds a HUGE touch to any song.
And I fricking love the end 5:38-6:30. Excellent lead out. So easy to mix, and you have possible drop points on your robot-sample. |
cheers guv
you've been a proper saint with this track, i was tempted to it off and delete it but felt i'd be rude to seeing as though you did such a proper review ;-)
thanks again mate |
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