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What?? No Riots?? No Burning Buildings?? (pg. 2)
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
Protestants vs Catholics, Sunni vs Shia, same old reasons, same pointless death and injury. :( |
I was brought up in a strict Calvinist Baptist HouseHold. went to church every Sunday, Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Sat. It got to the point that: to quote Kings of Comedy "I would rather go to hell". When I started to read about other religions, I started to see that it was all the same and had one goal: Control by a few over many. Give them hope. of a better life after life and they will build citys for you. Blow them selves up for you. Invade countries for you. All in the name of a god. |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
I was brought up in a strict Calvinist Baptist HouseHold. went to church every Sunday, Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Sat. It got to the point that: to quote Kings of Comedy "I would rather go to hell". When I started to read about other religions, I started to see that it was all the same and had one goal: Control by a few over many. Give them hope. of a better life after life and they will build citys for you. Blow them selves up for you. Invade countries for you. All in the name of a god. |
It's not any different when it comes to any secular ideology/doctrine eigther. The only difference is, most people living under a system or endorsing a particular doctrine at the time don't see it. Big surprise huh? The world for the most part has been an oligarchy of one form or another, despite the what it's supposed to be on paper. |
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| M.Johan |
So d u belive of this Samuel Huntington's ing theory?
someone like him plants hostility and iconoclast for ing faakes purposes |
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| Fir3start3r |
Dood, there is a whole movie on this...
The Body (2001)
| quote: | SYNOPSIS
At the dawn of the new millennium, in the cradle of faith that is Jerusalem, two seemingly mismatched people from different worlds and cultures -- Vatican-appointed Jesuit priest Matt Gutierrez (ANTONIO BANDERAS) and Israeli archaeologist Sharon Golban (OLIVIA WILLIAMS) -- make a tenuous alliance to investigate a find that not only threatens the very foundations of western religion, but also blow apart the region's fragile peace.
Behind a simple hardware store on Hanevi'im Street, Sharon has discovered an ancient skeleton in a rich man's tomb. Coloration on the wrist and leg bones indicate that the cause of death was the Roman method of executing criminals and enemies of the state, crucifixion. A gold coin found in the tomb bears the markings of Roman governor Pontius Pilate. And there are other signs which might corroborate Biblical descriptions of the death of the first century Judean rabbi Yeshu Ben Yosef... better known to our world as Jesus, son of Joseph.
Now, against increasingly difficult odds placed in their path by those locked in the power struggle for this transcendently beautiful but eternally troubled part of the world--politicians, clerics, religious extremists and those using terror as a means to an end--Matt, a man of faith and Sharon, a woman of science, find their beliefs and identities tested while risking their lives to penetrate the truth of this epochal discovery. -- © 2001 Lions Gate Films
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>>Source<< |
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| Sunsnail |
| Well, I don't think many christians would get upset over a little thing like exhibiting the body of Christ. A dutch cartoon on the other hand...*shudder* |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sunsnail
Well, I don't think many christians would get upset over a little thing like exhibiting the body of Christ. A dutch cartoon on the other hand...*shudder* |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Well, if the cartoons we're offensive and disrespectful in nature, I can understand why most Muslims would be pissed off. But that's about as far as I'm willing to let them go, being pissed and/or publicly demonstrating their discontent (non-violently ofcourse).
And to answer your question, it's because many muslims are ing stupid when it comes to their faith. I don't think I need to emphasize how stagnated mainstream Muslim though/culture has become. One big problem is that many, if not most, Muslims make little to no effort to understand their religion and mostly rely on their parents (who are usually just as ignorant) or "Imams" (not that there aren't some good Imams out there, but for the most part they're not very well educated and generally don't know what they're talking about on several issues). What Muslims all around the world rightnow need to do and realize is that Islam needs to be re-interpreted because we don't like in 600 A.D. Arabia anymore! Now this cultural/intellectual stangnace abviously doesn't have good results; most muslims have been conditioned to believe certain things as being completely unacceptable (mainly certain forms of blasphomy/prophet bashing, I can't think of many other issues that would make them flip out) and bearing due penalties which is stupid. They need to realize that first of all, if they live in the West, they are NOT in Muslim societies and therefore should not expect non-Muslims to respect all of their religious sensitivities (especially if they don't know what they are). Secondly, they have to respect the laws of that country and stay within those legal limits. Thirdly, the implication of freedom of speech is that sometimes they will have to listen to views that they absolutely lothe but still have tolerate it, since in a democracy, freedom of speech is everyones right.
But the good news is, that most first generation Muslims (atleast in the US), ppl brought up and raised here, usually tend to eigther make an honest effort themselves to understand/interpret their faith if being religious is what they choose to do OR the reject it and do what they want to do. (Point being, unlike Muslims from the old world, the younger generations are rebelling against the "do what tradition/your parents and religious 'authorities' (I use the term authority very sarcasticly here) tell you to do and don't think for yourself" mentality.)
One last comment I'd like to add, I guess in order to clearly answer your question, its not that Muslims expect non-Muslims to comply with most aspects of Islam (like in your Ramadan example), but they expect them to not disrespect their religion eigther. |
You can read the rest of my comments on it here:
tranceaddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Jihad on Denmark - freedom of expression rears its ugly head once again...
EDIT: Clearly, I'm not making a fuss about it or burning down. |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sunsnail
Well, I don't think many christians would get upset over a little thing like exhibiting the body of Christ. A dutch cartoon on the other hand...*shudder* |
I suppose bombing abortion clinics and killing doctors is anything but extreme right? |
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| Haunted |
| quote: | Originally posted by M.Johan
:whip: :whip:
Of course this whole from Israel |
of course! israel is trying to take over the world. they couldn't get rid of the muslims so now they're trying to bring down the christians! you're really smart Johan, and your arguments always make sense. this is definetely an israeli conspiracy. DAMN JEWS!! |
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| Zild |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
So with the exception of Renegade, tathi, Occ, and maybe I'm forgeting a few others, are there any atheists here who don't make ignorant and condescending generalizations about theists, or implicity making them by generalizing fringe fanatic and extremist views that often contradict religious teaching to all perspectives and interpretations? Do you really enjoy putting words in people's mouth that much? It's kind of like calling someone a Nazi just because they're German or any other form of defamation. Did it ever occur to some/any of you that individuals are different, even theists? Such a selfrighteous and arrogant attitude, more often than not, based on minimal to zero knowledge and understanding of (a specific) religion(s) is kind of ironic :conf:. You guys do realize that your view/interpretation, even if it is based on thorough research, isn't the only one on any particular religion right? How many religions have any of you guys studied anyways other than the ones you're loosely connected to? I doubt it's more than one, and most of you probably didn't even read through the entire text for it. Does that give you any idea about how your generalizations reflect on you, especially to some one who's actually studied one or more in a fair bit of detail? And if you're going to base your view on the actions of some so called followers, regardless of number and time period, that's a view on them not religion X itself. Let me give you guys an analogy. How many of you have read the communist manifesto or other marxist socialist type theory? I'm guessing at least some of you have. Did the Soviet Union bear any resemblance to the theory and doctrine? No, not really. Now try to think about that next time you feel like slandering individuals or collective groups with your broad generalizations. That's probably not going to happen, but at least I said it. So if I find it irritating, you'll know why. And there's plenty of it here, I just keep my mouth shut majority of the time since it's kind of pointless talking about it or explaining it to most people. Such an oppinionated attitude usually comes across as pretty arrogant to say the least. Plus, if people were more civil and less narrow minded, I wouldn't have to say anything in the first place. See, I respect people like Renegade as he's actually studied scripture in a fair bit of detail and has his own take on it, that's fine. He doesn't club people on the head his views all the time, and neigther is he condesending and rude with broad generalizations. So even though his veiws/interpretation is contrary to mine in many ways not to mention they're based on entirely different religious texts of different religions, I respect his views since he actually bases them on study and research as opposed to some irrelevant nonsense. I guess most people are obtuse and imperseptive jerks regardless of their beliefs (or lack of). |
But being condescending to thiests makes my penis seem to grow larger, and I AM a lunatic so there you have it... |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
But being condescending to thiests makes my penis seem to grow larger, and I AM a lunatic so there you have it... |
Definetly hehe... :thepirate |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
are there any atheists here who don't make ignorant and condescending generalizations about theists, or implicity making them by generalizing fringe fanatic and extremist views that often contradict religious teaching to all perspectives and interpretations? |
i find it interesting that youre allowed to make condescending or inflammatory remarks about the neocons, yet the atheists are not allowed to do the same with our intellectual/spiritual pet hates?
just started reading dawkins' "the god delusion" which is just the best ing read ever. his chapter on why does religion deserve higher respect than any other belief system is great.
recommended for the theist & atheist alike :)
i agree with your analogy re marxism and soviet russia- however one must make the point that marxist doctrine the world over has resulted in dictatorial, sometimes brutal regimes. if thats the outcome of marxist thought, one has to wonder whether its a doctrine worth adhering to.
technical or theoretical teachings are less important than how those ideas manifest themselves in the real world. you might well claim that extremist muslims are not adhering to the "real" islam, but an extremist could easily say the same about you. who is to say which of you is right? |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
i find it interesting that youre allowed to make condescending or inflammatory remarks about the neocons, yet the atheists are not allowed to do the same with our intellectual/spiritual pet hates?
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ssshhh!! he might tell lira you are picking on him....
:p |
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