|
BT (Binary Universe) vs. Jon Hopkins (pg. 4)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by PETRAN
I guess that he was one of the first who spawned the bigger, more-melodic, epic and fluffy sound, possibly together with Paul Van Dyk, Humate and similar artists of that era. I'm not sure how one can call this "watering-down" groundbreaking. I guess that it was "groundbreaking" in terms of the market, assisting progressive/trancey sounds getting substantial mainstream exposure but i don't think that he invented something. Groundbreaking were the stuff coming from Chicago, from Detroit, from Germany-early-90s but not the stuff that BT was doing, that was more like polishing and dumbing-it-down. Plus i don't think that he was the only one who did this stuff, Paul Van Dyk's first two albums were not that different (and IMO were much more interesting and better). |
You just called Ima a progressive house record, which it is. Then you start blathering about trance producers like PVD and Humate. Then you say PVD's first two albums were not that different to Ima. ing hell.
BT changed the direction of progressive house. PVD and Humate had all to do with this. It went from the darker, moodier sound of labels like Guerilla and Junior Boy's Own to a more melodic, elaborately produced sound. From this new direction sprang the careers of everyone from Way Out West and Quivver to Danny Howells. This melodic sound then became less funky and more trancey and became progressive trance. All the British producers who made progressive trance in the late 90s: Sasha, Bedrock, Tilt, Quivver, Evolution, Chakra, Sunday Club etc. all started out making the kind of progressive house pioneered by BT and followed him into progressive trance when the sound evolved. PVD, Humate, LSG and the other German producers joined up with them to make the progressive trance scene, but there would not have been a British progressive trance scene without BT, who was producing in the UK on Perfecto with the backing of Sasha. Along with Blue Amazon he completely changed the direction of an entire genre. The sound on Ima had never been done before, and if you're trying to tell me that 45RPM or Seven Ways sound the same you're being a clown.
EDIT: And I never ing said "groundbreaking", and neither did you. You said "new or innovative". I didn't claim BT was groundbreaking, which is a debatable word anyway. New and innovative means he did something new that hadn't been done before, and even if you're ignorant enough to think that all BT did in the mid-90s was "water down" trance (?) by making it more fluffy and epic then that still counts as new and innovative. Stop shifting the bull terms you're criticising the man on halfway through your limp-wristed argument. |
|
|
| TaylorR |
'cloud making machine' anyone?
beats TBU in my opinion but i do think TBU is very awesome nonetheless. |
|
|
| thoughtlessjex |
| quote: | | Originally posted by PETRAN Looking back to it now, i have to say that TBU is one of the worst albums i own (and i own a lot, a lot of albums). Its trully one of the most blatant,souless,musically- uninspired, musically-poor and dull albums i've ever heard in my life. I actually never got back to it after the first listens i gave. Its excellently engineered musical emptyness. Ofcourse this just my opinion... :D |
Reading this only makes me worry as to the nature of your soul and your understanding of music. It doesn't constitute an argument, and barely qualifies as a critique. If it's not your thing, that's cool, but calling it soulless based on your experience alone is really ing pretentious. |
|
|
| PETRAN |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
You just called Ima a progressive house record, which it is. Then you start blathering about trance producers like PVD and Humate. Then you say PVD's first two albums were not that different to Ima. ing hell.
BT changed the direction of progressive house. PVD and Humate had all to do with this. It went from the darker, moodier sound of labels like Guerilla and Junior Boy's Own to a more melodic, elaborately produced sound. From this new direction sprang the careers of everyone from Way Out West and Quivver to Danny Howells. This melodic sound then became less funky and more trancey and became progressive trance. All the British producers who made progressive trance in the late 90s: Sasha, Bedrock, Tilt, Quivver, Evolution, Chakra, Sunday Club etc. all started out making the kind of progressive house pioneered by BT and followed him into progressive trance when the sound evolved. PVD, Humate, LSG and the other German producers joined up with them to make the progressive trance scene, but there would not have been a British progressive trance scene without BT, who was producing in the UK on Perfecto with the backing of Sasha. Along with Blue Amazon he completely changed the direction of an entire genre. The sound on Ima had never been done before, and if you're trying to tell me that 45RPM or Seven Ways sound the same you're being a clown.
EDIT: And I never ing said "groundbreaking", and neither did you. You said "new or innovative". I didn't claim BT was groundbreaking, which is a debatable word anyway. New and innovative means he did something new that hadn't been done before, and even if you're ignorant enough to think that all BT did in the mid-90s was "water down" trance (?) by making it more fluffy and epic then that still counts as new and innovative. Stop shifting the bull terms you're criticising the man on halfway through your limp-wristed argument. |
BT, Paul Van Dyk, Humate, LSG etc. all comprised part of a bigger, cinematic, "progressive-edged" trancey sound that was occuring at mid-to-end-90s and which it had its' roots in both German Trance and British Progressive in equal proportions (call it progressive-house or progressive-trance whatever). Just take a look at Northern Exposure-2 and see what kind of music it features, that progressive trance sound which was both "German" and "British" (and featured both German and British acts/musicians).
You think that "Seven Ways" was different than "Ima"? Maybe thats the case if what you remember from "Seven Ways" are tracks such as "Seven Ways", "Forbidden Fruit" and "Words", that is, the more euroish upbeat trance hits. If you take a closer listen to all the tracks though, you'll find out that it is the exact same genre of music we are talking about here, listen to "Home", "Heaven", "I like It","I Can't Feel It", "Come (And Get It)", "Beautiful Place","The Greatness of Britain". Long arpeggiated (usually acid or acid-like) lines that get filtered and filtered,giving the impression of an ever-ending development,all types of sounds and effects coming and fading, snippets of vocal samples and bigger melodic lines playing for some amount of time only to dissapear again and give place to the long development, all these embedded in a more gentle-than-the-traditional-faster-trance tempo. You could listen the same thing with some of Humate's tracks such as "East", "3.1.", "3.3." etc. How are all these tracks different to tracks such as "Loving You More", "Poseidon", "Divinity", "Embracing the Sunshine" etc.? The only difference is usually in tempo, e.g. PVD or Humate coming from a trance background tended to have a bit faster tempos whereas BT had more slower gentle/housey ones, but still, many of the tracks are in similar tempos and as i said before, the content and the whole approach are identical.
Who was the inventor of the current bigger sound? (which eventually led to epic trance and to the further development of progressive trance with Quiver etc.)) I guess that there was no single inventor as THE BT you propose. Maybe BT was one of the first to sculpt this bigger sound, but as you said, elements of his approach can be found in the Guerilla back-gatalogue as we as (i would add) in MFS and Eye-Q. What BT had done (yes together with artists such as PVD) were to bind traditional progressive house and trance elements into a bigger polished cinematic sound giving it more mainstream exposure. He was surely a substantial driving force in the mid-90s but not a ground-breaking musician of any sorts.
| quote: | [i][b]Originally posted by thoughtlessjex
Reading this only makes me worry as to the nature of your soul and your understanding of music. It doesn't constitute an argument, and barely qualifies as a critique. If it's not your thing, that's cool, but calling it soulless based on your experience alone is really ing pretentious. |
So, i don't understand, i'm pretending because i state my opinion about the album? |
|
|
| thoughtlessjex |
| quote: | | Originally posted by PETRAN So, i don't understand, i'm pretending because i state my opinion about the album? |
You sound like a Y00t00b n00b here.
"OMG, i jsut said my opinon liek ita a fact you cant be mean to me about it." |
|
|
| PETRAN |
| quote: | Originally posted by thoughtlessjex
You sound like a Y00t00b n00b here.
"OMG, i jsut said my opinon liek ita a fact you cant be mean to me about it." |
lol you are a funny lad |
|
|
| zack3082 |
| im going to check this guy out when i get off of work |
|
|
| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by PETRAN
BT, Paul Van Dyk, Humate, LSG etc. all comprised part of a bigger, cinematic, "progressive-edged" trancey sound that was occuring at mid-to-end-90s and which it had its' roots in both German Trance and British Progressive in equal proportions (call it progressive-house or progressive-trance whatever). Just take a look at Northern Exposure-2 and see what kind of music it features, that progressive trance sound which was both "German" and "British" (and featured both German and British acts/musicians). |
Yes, well done. You've repeated what I've already said.
| quote: | | You think that "Seven Ways" was different than "Ima"? Maybe thats the case if what you remember from "Seven Ways" are tracks such as "Seven Ways", "Forbidden Fruit" and "Words", that is, the more euroish upbeat trance hits. |
I own the double disc version of Seven Ways, I've listened to it many times and I have heard all the singles released from it.
| quote: | | How are all these tracks different to tracks such as "Loving You More", "Poseidon", "Divinity", "Embracing the Sunshine" etc.? The only difference is usually in tempo, e.g. PVD or Humate coming from a trance background tended to have a bit faster tempos whereas BT had more slower gentle/housey ones, but still, many of the tracks are in similar tempos and as i said before, the content and the whole approach are identical. |
No, because Ima is house. Loving You More is a pure house record, it sounds absolutely nothing like anything you've just compared it to. Ima is far more syncopated, it has much more funky basslines and it uses BT's classical piano sound extensively. How many tracks on Seven Ways have piano? Beautiful Place, and that's pretty much it. BT's tracks are structurally different with more clearly defined phases- just look at Divinity with its piano intro, acid midsection and then piano chorus climax. It doesn't follow your description at all. And that's because it's a house record where as BT, Humate, LSG and so on made trance.
| quote: | | Who was the inventor of the current bigger sound? (which eventually led to epic trance and to the further development of progressive trance with Quiver etc.)) I guess that there was no single inventor as THE BT you propose. |
I'm not talking about the "current bigger sound", so why the you've mentioned it I do not know. I'm talking about the entire change of direction of progressive house in the mid-90s. And BT, alongside Blue Amazon and possibly Sasha, was responsible for that. Without him, epic house wouldn't have happened meaning progressive trance would have been totally different, meaning the entire progressive scene from 1995 onwards would have been completely different.
Although this is irrelevant. You've tried to turn this into saying how BT was "groundbreaking" when that wasn't the issue. Ima was a new and innovative sound. No progressive house had sounded like it before. You mention trance records, showing your poor ability to distinguish prog house from trance, but even they came after Ima: Seven Ways (1996), 3.1 (1996) etc. Ima was a new and innovative sound because it had never been done before. QED. |
|
|
| airwalker1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
You just called Ima a progressive house record, which it is. Then you start blathering about trance producers like PVD and Humate. Then you say PVD's first two albums were not that different to Ima. ing hell.
BT changed the direction of progressive house. PVD and Humate had all to do with this. It went from the darker, moodier sound of labels like Guerilla and Junior Boy's Own to a more melodic, elaborately produced sound. From this new direction sprang the careers of everyone from Way Out West and Quivver to Danny Howells. This melodic sound then became less funky and more trancey and became progressive trance. All the British producers who made progressive trance in the late 90s: Sasha, Bedrock, Tilt, Quivver, Evolution, Chakra, Sunday Club etc. all started out making the kind of progressive house pioneered by BT and followed him into progressive trance when the sound evolved. PVD, Humate, LSG and the other German producers joined up with them to make the progressive trance scene, but there would not have been a British progressive trance scene without BT, who was producing in the UK on Perfecto with the backing of Sasha. Along with Blue Amazon he completely changed the direction of an entire genre. The sound on Ima had never been done before, and if you're trying to tell me that 45RPM or Seven Ways sound the same you're being a clown.
EDIT: And I never ing said "groundbreaking", and neither did you. You said "new or innovative". I didn't claim BT was groundbreaking, which is a debatable word anyway. New and innovative means he did something new that hadn't been done before, and even if you're ignorant enough to think that all BT did in the mid-90s was "water down" trance (?) by making it more fluffy and epic then that still counts as new and innovative. Stop shifting the bull terms you're criticising the man on halfway through your limp-wristed argument. |
he's right pvd and the likes of him stayed true to there roots (bierlin underground). it was only when the likes of bt and quiver did the rest soon follow. bt was making waves back then and i bet he will now with his new work.hes an artist. |
|
|
| sljiva |
BT was definitely not the first one who did more epic/trancier prog. house, however since he was releasing on a big label and since he released an album (early 90's prog. house artists rarely decided to release an album), you could say he was the main figure in converting prog. house to prog. trance.
His TBU album, however, is not that good as some people proclaim it to be. I'm affraid the large amount of those who whorship it (not all of those who like it) have missed out on a lot of great music, and are not too objective in their evaluation. And stop already with the IDM nonsense; TBU is not an IDM record. |
|
|
| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by sljiva
BT was definitely not the first one who did more epic/trancier prog. house, however since he was releasing on a big label and since he released an album (early 90's prog. house artists rarely decided to release an album), you could say he was the main figure in converting prog. house to prog. trance.
His TBU album, however, is not that good as some people proclaim it to be. I'm affraid the large amount of those who whorship it (not all of those who like it) have missed out on a lot of great music, and are not too objective in their evaluation. And stop already with the IDM nonsense; TBU is not an IDM record. |
BT is IDM in the sense that Tiesto is trance, its like pop-IDM which maybe might get people into that sound a bit more, but not really IDM. |
|
|
|
|
