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The Litvinenko case comes to America + further victims
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| HardTranceProd |
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17424538/
Wow.
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WASHINGTON - FBI agents say they are assisting police in suburban Washington who are investigating the shooting of a Russian expert — a man who spoke out on "Dateline NBC" last weekend and strongly suggested that remnants of the KGB were responsible for the bizarre poisoning death of Alexander Litvinenko.
The Russian expert, Paul Joyal, was shot Thursday night as he got out of his car in front of his house in Adelphi, Md. Investigators in Prince Georges County say a witness claims to have seen two men running away after the shooting. Joyal remains hospitalized with a gunshot wound to the midsection. Authorities have not said whether they've been able to talk to him.
Joyal is a long-time consultant on security and Russian affairs. From 1980 to 1989, he was director of security for the Senate Intelligence Committee.
On last weekend's "Dateline," he said of Litvenenko's death: "A message has been communicated to anyone who wants to speak out against the Kremlin: 'If you do, no matter who you are, where you are, we will find you and we will silence you — in the most horrible way possible.'"
The shooting has certainly raised eyebrows, because Maryland police are well aware of Joyal's views regarding the Litvinenko death. But at this point, they have no evidence suggesting this was anything other than an example of the rising crime rate in Washington's Maryland suburbs. Local investigators are highly skeptical that his shooting was anything other than street crime.
In an odd twist, another person who appeared on the "Dateline" broadcast died of a heart attack last month. Reporter Daniel McGrory of the Times of London, who has written about the Litvinenko case, died Feb. 20, before the "Dateline" segment was broadcast. He was 54.
His family said he "died suddenly at home." He was a veteran British foreign correspondent who had reported from several war zones. Just before his death, he had been reporting in Pakistan.
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Two more deaths? |
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| Magnetonium |
:haha: :haha: :haha: You guys seriously think the Russian government is doing this? :haha: :haha: :haha: |
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| star-traveller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
:haha: :haha: :haha: You guys seriously think the Russian government is doing this? :haha: :haha: :haha: |
What makes you think it's not? |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by star-traveller
What makes you think it's not? |
Its pretty obvious that Americans/British are pissed off about Putin, especially since his speech in Germany about American global domination and his views against a one-polar world.
Who benefits from this? Russia's image has been terribly battered by the Litvinenko case. Why would YET AGAIN Putin or the government order yet another killing(s) of some other LESS prominent people who possess no threats to Russia, its security, its image. However, now that they're dead its easily blamed on Russia. This is plain silly. I mean, I can see why Litvinenko case was suspected of Putin, but these developments are ridiculous. I dont buy it. Putin is trying to damage his own image around the world, is that what you suggesting? LOL |
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| emc^2 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Its pretty obvious that Americans/British are pissed off about Putin, especially since his speech in Germany about American global domination and his views against a one-polar world.
Who benefits from this? Russia's image has been terribly battered by the Litvinenko case. Why would YET AGAIN Putin or the government order yet another killing(s) of some other LESS prominent people who possess no threats to Russia, its security, its image. However, now that they're dead its easily blamed on Russia. This is plain silly. I mean, I can see why Litvinenko case was suspected of Putin, but these developments are ridiculous. I dont buy it. Putin is trying to damage his own image around the world, is that what you suggesting? LOL |
Putin could care less about his image. Russia is back to being a superpower, KGB is back in business and if you don't believe that - check your head.
Interesting little bit of info:
| quote: | Safronov stated that he would check information that he had received on possible new deliveries of Russian weapons to the Middle East while at the IDEX 2007 arms exhibition in the United Arab Emirates. That exhibition opened February 17. Safronov was interested in the sale of Su-30 fighter jets to Syria and S-300V missiles to Iran. He had information that those deals would be concluded through Belarus, in order for Moscow to avoid accusations in the West of selling weapons to pariah states. Safronov called the editorial office from Abu Dhabi to say that he had found confirmation of his facts.
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Wonder what happened to him? He "commited suicide" by *cough* falling out of a building.
Read on:Link |
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| star-traveller |
| quote: | Originally posted by emc^2
Putin could care less about his image. Russia is back to being a superpower, KGB is back in business and if you don't believe that - check your head.
Interesting little bit of info:
Wonder what happened to him? He "commited suicide" by *cough* falling out of a building.
Read on:Link |
Russia is back being a Superpower? :haha:
Dude wake-up!!! when was the last time you've been there? |
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| Lilith |
| quote: | Originally posted by emc^2
Wonder what happened to him? He "commited suicide" by *cough* falling out of a building.
Read on:Link |
#13 to die in a contract killing since 2000, putting Russia the 3rd most dangerous place in the world to work as a journalist behind Algeria and Iraq. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by emc^2
Putin could care less about his image. Russia is back to being a superpower, KGB is back in business and if you don't believe that - check your head.
Interesting little bit of info:
Wonder what happened to him? He "commited suicide" by *cough* falling out of a building.
Read on:Link |
First of all, Russia's nowhere back as a superpower, and we are not the ones invading countries and telling others what to do; second of all - you should check your own head cause seems like you are a crazy conspiracy nut. Many kinds of people die in Russia all the time, the crime and corruption is high - politicians (YES, EVEN PRO-PUTIN POLITICIANS HAVE DIED, LIKE MR. KOZLOV RECENTLY), media, generals, scientists, business people, foreigners, etc. and you conveniently blame that on Putin. A great analogy would be to blame President Bush for murder of journalists in Iraq. Did Bush order those killings? Uhmmm, Putin has many more important things to do other than ordering the killing of some political think tank. You have no proof. For now you're a conspiracy theorist.
To tell you the truth, some of the murders, like that of Politkovskaya, do look like government-contracted killings, and I knoe Russian government has done shady things, but for Christ's sake you cant blame Putin for every single murder of journalists, political think tanks, businessmen when his own people get shot as well. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
#13 to die in a contract killing since 2000, putting Russia the 3rd most dangerous place in the world to work as a journalist behind Algeria and Iraq. |
anyone want a piece of this?
those are some pretty staggering numbers. |
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| Lilith |
They're fairly damning numbers...
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
To tell you the truth, some of the murders, like that of Politkovskaya, do look like government-contracted killings, and I knoe Russian government has done shady things, but for Christ's sake you cant blame Putin for every single murder of journalists, political think tanks, businessmen when his own people get shot as well. |
But the fact remains, fairly much all of these people where flat out murdered professionally, not just 'accidents' and statistical street crimes and secondly, they where all very critical and scathing of the government.
It doesn't just 'look kinda suspect', it reeks of it!
With that much power and that much money at stake, most politicians are happy to have a bit of a friendly-fire on their subordinates if needed to distract from the facts surrounding themselves.
When there's opposition to the government and people are dying like the way they are here, someones got to hold responsibility for it and ultimately that responsibility lies at the top of the chain of command. Because if he isn't, then who is running the country and ordering this sort of thing?
As for Polonium, it's not something you can get a lot of in large quantities to kill people without tripping off some kind of security notification. Its rare, horrendously expensive and isn't something you can just pick up at the chemist, because outside Russia the only source of the material commercially didn't register the sales and had their stocks accounted for.
It was used to make a point
For someone to acquire that amount and then use it, way too much effort and would leave a paper trail and dozens of underworld contacts, far easier to have someone drop good old cyanide in there which you can get anywhere. Only difference between cyanide and polonium is that one kills fast, but they both make you most assuredly dead. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
They're fairly damning numbers...
But the fact remains, fairly much all of these people where flat out murdered professionally, not just 'accidents' and statistical street crimes and secondly, they where all very critical and scathing of the government.
It doesn't just 'look kinda suspect', it reeks of it!
With that much power and that much money at stake, most politicians are happy to have a bit of a friendly-fire on their subordinates if needed to distract from the facts surrounding themselves.
When there's opposition to the government and people are dying like the way they are here, someones got to hold responsibility for it and ultimately that responsibility lies at the top of the chain of command. Because if he isn't, then who is running the country and ordering this sort of thing?
As for Polonium, it's not something you can get a lot of in large quantities to kill people without tripping off some kind of security notification. Its rare, horrendously expensive and isn't something you can just pick up at the chemist, because outside Russia the only source of the material commercially didn't register the sales and had their stocks accounted for.
It was used to make a point
For someone to acquire that amount and then use it, way too much effort and would leave a paper trail and dozens of underworld contacts, far easier to have someone drop good old cyanide in there which you can get anywhere. Only difference between cyanide and polonium is that one kills fast, but they both make you most assuredly dead. |
Whats cheaper, more effective and look more like an attempted robbery or gang violence to blam on - use of ultra-expensive polonium or a bullet through the head? I think the second option is much cheaper and less likely to be connected to Russian government. Use of polonium only raises big questions as to who can afford the polonium. Its an expensive, dangerous and stupid method, basically only benefiting the British government who can use it as a tool to scare people and wrap around itself support against Russia, to make Russia look bad. Litvinenko was a nobody, possessing no military secrets, no evidence, only speculation. So then why would Russian government and Russian agencies, who ruled out in 1950s assassinations of political dissidents abroad would use .... POLONIUM ... ? |
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| Dopey |
Magnaman,
You're missing a huge part of the puzzle in your head. You're assuming that politicians everywhere are concerned with image, respect, etc. Russians are the complete opposite of the norm when it comes to all this. Nothing about the culture is subtle. The way they dress, talk, kill, do their hair, nothing is subtle. Putin & Co. might think they're very slick silencing all these people, but what they fail to understand is that the silence is deafening.
Of course they are not responsible for every single death, but I think everyone assumes they are responsible for a great number of them, and whether or not that assumption is correct is irrelevant. Everything about the country and especially it's leaders just plain oozes sketchyness.
Look at the Malkin case ffs. |
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