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What's the best soundcard?? (pg. 3)
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| Trancefxs |
| quote: | Originally posted by echosystm
Some advice from an M-Audio owner: don't get one
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lol, not too late yet, but I will have to spend a lot of money if everyone of you owners of "affordable" soundcards come here to suggest to consider something else. :) |
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| Derivative |
Man, I dont get it. Those EMU cards are good for the bucks. Some of the best at their respective pricepoints in my humble opinion (Im talking specifically about the 1616M). Sure you can get better but it'll cost you alot more.
M-Audio really isn't that bad. The conversion of the Delta 1010 is actually alright considering how old it is. I just got a Fireface 400 and its undoubtedly better but hell - it does cost twice the price.
And one thing I will give to M-Audio. Their Delta drivers are awesome. My 1010 has never skipped a beat in the two years I've owned it. It just sits there quietly and does its thing (although it does get quite hot). RME's drivers are pretty awesome too though...
If you wan't to get a Delta 1010LT I would suggest passing up on the offer and getting the 1010. Its more expensive but its totally balanced and theres just no excuse these days for getting a soundcard that doesn't have balanced I/O. It would be like buying into an evolutionary dead end.
I can live with less than perfect conversion and less than perfect preamplification. That stuff costs more than I can afford anyhow. What I can't live with is shoddy drivers. Shoddy software mixers. I'm thinking of the Focusrite Saffire which I got to try at Temple Bar music centre on launch day. This card is basically good for the money but the deal breaker for me was SaffireControl. Every time you saved a mixer state all the gain faders would default back to 0dB.
This is not cool. Theres nothing quite like having your monitor level shoot up by 100dB in an instant and this type of thing I can't work with. I hope to god they fixed that bug (?) because it put me right off that card...
Its made worse by the fact that it only outputs at high line level sensitivity (+4dBV) so its freaking loud whatever happens. I pity the sucker that set up his Saffire without consulting the manual or dropping all the gain stages down to zero before powering it up. This thing could damn near blow your head off if you aren't careful. |
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| G-Con |
I'm getting a virus ti and need a soundcard with a few more i/os and a midi i/o. I was gonna get the m-audio 1010lt as it has all the ports i need. It is unbalanced though.
Is this a problem with the virus ti? I dont even know what balanced/unbalanced is...
I'm on a mega tight budget due to the ti so cant really pay much more |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by G-Con
I'm getting a virus ti and need a soundcard with a few more i/os and a midi i/o. I was gonna get the m-audio 1010lt as it has all the ports i need. It is unbalanced though.
Is this a problem with the virus ti? I dont even know what balanced/unbalanced is...
I'm on a mega tight budget due to the ti so cant really pay much more |
An unbalanced signal is basically just two wires. A balanced signal provides an extra wire for isolating the sound from interference.
You want balanced.
Save up for another couple of weeks so you don't regret your purchase. Also, the Virus TI has audio out incase you hadn't realised. So you can use that in the meantime. |
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| flutlicht junky |
RME are a very very good make and I was going to get one.
Echo make a very good range of cards, starting out at the bottom end and moving up (including the Audiofire 12 which I'll be the owner of soon!!!:p).
As alot of ppl have said including me it's really alot to do with drivers and how often they are updates and how well written they are.
FJ |
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| jahnlay |
| If you can afford an RME, get one, they're the best. |
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| G-Con |
| quote: | Originally posted by echosystm
Also, the Virus TI has audio out incase you hadn't realised. So you can use that in the meantime. |
How can i use that in the meantime? Say i've got the virus hooked up via usb. Can i connect my monitors to the virus and hear everything thorugh the virus (not just what the virus is making but all other sounds aswell) |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by G-Con
How can i use that in the meantime? Say i've got the virus hooked up via usb. Can i connect my monitors to the virus and hear everything thorugh the virus (not just what the virus is making but all other sounds aswell) |
Yes, as far as I am aware. |
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| G-Con |
Sorry for all the qusetions but just one more
Would the audiophile 192 or terratec pahse 28 be okay. They seem to be balanced ins and outs though are admittedly quite cheap. |
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| Derivative |
| quote: | Originally posted by G-Con
I'm getting a virus ti and need a soundcard with a few more i/os and a midi i/o. I was gonna get the m-audio 1010lt as it has all the ports i need. It is unbalanced though.
Is this a problem with the virus ti? I dont even know what balanced/unbalanced is...
I'm on a mega tight budget due to the ti so cant really pay much more |
It used to be the case that you needed a transformer or an op amp to get an unbalanced transmitter to a balanced receiver. But pretty much every soundcard these days that sports balanced inputs can take any combination of balanced and unbalanced lines so it doesn't matter anymore.
Balancing will give you noise rejection and a louder signal. I've typed up a pretty detailed post in ML about how balancing works and why its a good idea so I'll find it and repost it here if you wan't to know the specifics. But the short of it is that an unbalanced cable has a signal carrying line and a ground.
A balanced cable has 2 signal carrying lines (one with an equal and opposite voltage to the other, meaning that the second signal carrying line is in antiphase with the first). The third line is the ground.
As a signal travels along a length of wire it attenuates and accumulates interference (if present from a ground loop, RF Interference or signal cross talk).
A balanced cable will pick this noise up, in phase on both signal carrying lines. When it reaches the input stage of, say, your soundcard, the balanced input reads the voltage difference between the two signals as being the actual signal and everything else is rejected.
So to sum up:
At the output stage you have:
An In phase signal
An Anti phase signal
These two signals travel along the wire and accumulate noise if present.
At the input stage you have
An In phase signal + in phase noise
An Anti phase signal + in phase noise
By this point you will kind of see where this is leading.
The anti phase signal has its polarity reversed putting it back in phase. But in doing so it flips the noise on the anti phase line into...anti phase!
So you are left with:
An In phase signal + in phase noise
An In phase signal + anti phase noise
These are then summed to mono at the input where the noise is eliminated by destructive phasing. The two in phase signals are reinforced and you get a much louder signal.
Those are the two main by products of balancing but this process also eliminates ground loops. This is the same way a DI box works in order to break ground loops.
The Bottomline:
Doesn't matter what soundcard you have provided its not from the stone age. If bought within the last 5 years you could buy a TI and simply plug it in. If you have unbalanced inputs, they won't be able to read the anti phase signal so the balancing process won't work. But you will get a signal on the other signal carrying line. Basically, the Virus TI will work exactly the same as on a balanced card except you get no noise rejection. And as a consequence the output will be quieter. But it'll work just as good as any other unbalanced synth (i.e. Virus B) |
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| Trancefxs |
| quote: | Originally posted by jahnlay
If you can afford an RME, get one, they're the best. |
But they are not an all in one solution, right? What a jungle.
I guess I will go for the 1616M, although I am a bit scared of the programm included to set the soundcard, is described in many forums as complicated. |
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| G-Con |
| quote: | Originally posted by Derivative
It used to be the case that you needed a transformer or an op amp to get an unbalanced transmitter to a balanced receiver. But pretty much every soundcard these days that sports balanced inputs can take any combination of balanced and unbalanced lines so it doesn't matter anymore.
Balancing will give you noise rejection and a louder signal. I've typed up a pretty detailed post in ML about how balancing works and why its a good idea so I'll find it and repost it here if you wan't to know the specifics. But the short of it is that an unbalanced cable has a signal carrying line and a ground.
A balanced cable has 2 signal carrying lines (one with an equal and opposite voltage to the other, meaning that the second signal carrying line is in antiphase with the first). The third line is the ground.
As a signal travels along a length of wire it attenuates and accumulates interference (if present from a ground loop, RF Interference or signal cross talk).
A balanced cable will pick this noise up, in phase on both signal carrying lines. When it reaches the input stage of, say, your soundcard, the balanced input reads the voltage difference between the two signals as being the actual signal and everything else is rejected.
So to sum up:
At the output stage you have:
An In phase signal
An Anti phase signal
These two signals travel along the wire and accumulate noise if present.
At the input stage you have
An In phase signal + in phase noise
An Anti phase signal + in phase noise
By this point you will kind of see where this is leading.
The anti phase signal has its polarity reversed putting it back in phase. But in doing so it flips the noise on the anti phase line into...anti phase!
So you are left with:
An In phase signal + in phase noise
An In phase signal + anti phase noise
These are then summed to mono at the input where the noise is eliminated by destructive phasing. The two in phase signals are reinforced and you get a much louder signal.
Those are the two main by products of balancing but this process also eliminates ground loops. This is the same way a DI box works in order to break ground loops.
The Bottomline:
Doesn't matter what soundcard you have provided its not from the stone age. If bought within the last 5 years you could buy a TI and simply plug it in. If you have unbalanced inputs, they won't be able to read the anti phase signal so the balancing process won't work. But you will get a signal on the other signal carrying line. Basically, the Virus TI will work exactly the same as on a balanced card except you get no noise rejection. And as a consequence the output will be quieter. But it'll work just as good as any other unbalanced synth (i.e. Virus B) |
Complicated but I think I get it. Thanks for the post. Something I've always wondered. Does having a better soundcard actually improve the sound quality of any given production or merely sound better on my own setup.
If i was to save up and upgrade from the delta 44 to the e-mu 1616, would it actually give me better produced sound or just sound better to me, but not make a difference once played on other systems? |
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