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Florida man says ex-wife's sex change should end alimony obligation
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| Cro_Addict |
An interesting Topic. I am interested to know what all you people have to say, and what your thoughts are.
| quote: | CLEARWATER, Fla. (AP) - Lawrence Roach agreed to pay alimony to the woman he divorced, not the man she became after a sex change, his lawyers argued Tuesday in an effort to end the payments. But the ex-wife's attorneys said the operation doesn't alter the agreement.
The lawyers and Circuit Judge Jack R. St. Arnold agreed the case delves into relatively unchartered legal territory. They found only a 2004 Ohio case that addressed whether or not a transsexual could still collect alimony after a sex change.
"There is not a lot out there to help us," St. Arnold said.
Roach and his wife, Julia, divorced in 2004 after 18 years of marriage. The 48-year-old utility worker agreed to pay her $1,250 a month in alimony. Since then, Julia Roach, 55, had a sex change and legally changed her name to Julio Roberto Silverwolf.
"It's illegal for a man to marry a man and it should likewise be illegal for a man to pay alimony to a man," Roach's attorney John McGuire said. "When she changed to man, I believe she terminated that alimony."
Silverwolf did not appear in court Tuesday and has declined to talk about the divorce. His lawyer, Gregory Nevins, said the language of the divorce decree is clear and firm - Roach agreed to pay alimony until his ex-wife dies or remarries.
"Those two things haven't happened," said Nevins, a senior staff attorney with the national gay rights group Lambda Legal.
St. Arnold is considering the arguments. But lawyers on both sides agreed Tuesday that Roach will likely have to keep paying alimony to Silverwolf.
The judge poked holes in several of Roach's legal arguments and noted that appeals courts have declined to legally recognize a sex change in Florida when it comes to marriage. The appellate court "is telling us you are what you are when you are born," St. Arnold said.
In the Ohio case, an appeals court ruled in September 2004 that a Montgomery County man must continue to pay $750 a month in alimony to his transsexual ex-wife because her sex change wasn't reason enough to violate the agreement.
Roach's other attorney, John Smitten, said the case falls into a legal void.
"It's probably something that has to be addressed by the Legislature," Smitten said. "There is one other case in the entire United States. It really needs to be addressed either for or against the concept of eliminating alimony for that reason."
Roach, who has since remarried, said has been unable to convince state and federal lawmakers to tackle the issue. He said he will continue to fight.
"This is definitely wrong. I have a right to move forward with my life. I wish no harm and hardship to that person," Roach said of his ex-wife. "They can be the person they want to be, to find happiness and peace within themselves. I have the right to do the same. But I can't rest because I'm paying a lot of money every month."
The legal fight is the second transsexual rights showdown in Pinellas County in less than a week. On Friday, transsexual activists from around the country packed a City Commission meeting in neighboring Largo to oppose the firing of City Manager Steve Stanton after he announced he was a transsexual.
Despite the support, commissioners voted 5-2 to fire Stanton.
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| daves |
hahahaha that aint gonna fly
good luck buddy! |
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| Cro_Addict |
| quote: | Originally posted by daves
hahahaha that aint gonna fly
good luck buddy! |
most likely not, but do you agree with it or disagree? |
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| EvilTree |
| It kinda alludes that the dude married an another guy, since alimony (unless def. changes again) is between a man and a woman. IIRC :stongue: |
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| chinamon |
forget the alimony...
how is a guy supposed to live with himself knowing that he turned his wife in to a tranny? |
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| Jungle Fever |
It states that "Roach agreed to pay alimony until his ex-wife dies or remarries". Saddly Roach is out of luck because his ex is now unable to remarry as that would be against the law, unless she married another man. But then again I don't think they allow that either in the States. I guess he will have to wait for him/her to die.
Wow, what complications. |
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| nigel2k |
| quote: | Originally Posted by chinamon
Forget the alimony...
how is a guy supposed to live with himself knowing that he turned his wife in to a tranny? |
exactly |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jungle Fever
It states that "Roach agreed to pay alimony until his ex-wife dies or remarries". Saddly Roach is out of luck because his ex is now unable to remarry as that would be against the law, unless she married another man. But then again I don't think they allow that either in the States. I guess he will have to wait for him/her to die.
Wow, what complications. |
what happened to marrying a woman then?:conf: |
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| Jungle Fever |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
what happened to marrying a woman then?:conf: |
It would be against the law as the State sees her as a woman and therefore not allowed to marry another woman. They only see a person for what they were born as. But then again, now that she looks like a man, I think they would have a problem with her marrying a man.
I don't know. I'm just speculating. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| IMO the alimony payments should stop once the ex is able to support herself in the life she was accustom to while married. Once it can be shown that she has reached that lifestyle and can support that lifestyle on her own then payments should be stopped....unless there are children involved then payments need to be made to help support the children. I don't think it should matter what sex the person is. When they got married they entered into a legally binding agreement and when they got divorced they entered into a legally binding agreement. I can definately see future alimony agreements having a clause that if the person decides to change their sexual orientation that the agreement becomes null and void. |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jungle Fever
It would be against the law as the State sees her as a woman and therefore not allowed to marry another woman. They only see a person for what they were born as. But then again, now that she looks like a man, I think they would have a problem with her marrying a man.
I don't know. I'm just speculating. |
I'm pretty sure if she changers her passport to say M in the sex section, she can marry a woman |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cro_Addict
most likely not, but do you agree with it or disagree? |
it's absurd to suggest that alimony should end.
alimony (in theory, not always in practise) is for a spouse to maintain a standard of living to which they were accustomed during their time with their spouse (e.g. the stay-at-home parent who raised three kids while the other parent furthered their career)
given this, how is an ex-spouse getting a sex change at all relevant?
it's more like this clown is looking for a legal technicality (gay marriage being illegal there) to get out of paying alimony...or is simply embarassed/upset at now paying money to a post-op person, for whatever reason.
alimony is related to income and standard of living and, as ChemEnhanced stated, should be altered/halted when either of those two factors improves for the spouse who initially received support. |
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