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Lebanese troops bombard Palestinian Refugee Camp (pg. 2)
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by M.Johan
Who has said that? |
Me. As it clearly says in your quote
| quote: | More than 700,000(seven hundred thousands)palastenine refugees
have been forced by the Israeli occupation to leave their land & homes from 1948
"We created terror among the Arabs and all the villages around. In one blow, we changed the strategic situation."
Menachem Begin
The Source |
And how exactly does that argue against the fact that the Arab states hold the Palestinians in as much contempt as the Israelis?
Of course there are two sides to the story in most cases (ie the PLO factions provoked the response from the state that took it out on all Palestinians) but look at how they were treated in Jordan and Lebanon and Kuwait and now in Iraq
You are quite right that they were forced to flee from the Israelis but they weren't wanted in any of the Arab states that claim to have their interests at heart when they address their own citizens for support |
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| emc^2 |
^^^ Palestinians were always a gambling chip for other Arab nations - they are used as the wedge and lever to justify erradication of the state of Israel.
Surprisingly enough, none of these countries are willing to do much for Palestinians that ask them for help, aside from making public declarations and speeches about love for Palestinians and deep-seated hatred for Israel. Furthermore, it makes such a beautiful and yet simple bait for soft-hearted "gentiles" - show them how much-despised Christ-killers are killing poor palestinians and have "STOLEN" their land.
Hook, line, and sinker - you take it all in. Well, here's your soap opera unraveling right in front of you. Part of you screams in denial, the other part works hard on finding justifications - "umm. tham darn jews must be behind all this!"... yet at the end of the day it all comes down to simple truths which are revealed on daily basis. Tho, now they are more in your face. Perhaps its time to take your rose-colored glasses off and face the truth? No?
just a thought... |
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| Krypton |
| I hope the Lebanese army destorys every single one of those terrorists. |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
I hope the Lebanese army destorys every single one of those terrorists. |
Not very good PR for the Lebanese army for killing civvies while trying to get at terrorists.
Then again, civvies make good bullet shield for terrorists |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by emc^2
^^^ Palestinians were always a gambling chip for other Arab nations - they are used as the wedge and lever to justify erradication of the state of Israel.
Surprisingly enough, none of these countries are willing to do much for Palestinians that ask them for help, aside from making public declarations and speeches about love for Palestinians and deep-seated hatred for Israel. |
You actually did well up until this point...
| quote: | Furthermore, it makes such a beautiful and yet simple bait for soft-hearted "gentiles" - show them how much-despised Christ-killers are killing poor palestinians and have "STOLEN" their land.
Hook, line, and sinker - you take it all in. Well, here's your soap opera unraveling right in front of you. Part of you screams in denial, the other part works hard on finding justifications - "umm. tham darn jews must be behind all this!"... yet at the end of the day it all comes down to simple truths which are revealed on daily basis. Tho, now they are more in your face. Perhaps its time to take your rose-colored glasses off and face the truth? No?
just a thought... |
Then you came out with this crap and really let yourself down. Shame.
However it would be quite bad of me to simply insult you and leave it at that!
So...
What are you talking about when you say "show them how much-despised Christ-killers are killing poor palestinians and have "STOLEN" their land" - are you of the persuasion that the Palestinians only left their land to make way for the prevailing Arab invasion?
Second paragraph: Being as diplomatic as I can when reading such pointless, random and plain daft bollocks, all I have to say really is "what the are you talking about"?! |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
Not very good PR for the Lebanese army for killing civvies while trying to get at terrorists.
Then again, civvies make good bullet shield for terrorists |
So they have a truce to allow the civilians to leave.:)
Let the Lebanese take control of their own country. I also smell Syria all over this one.
Source
| quote: | Truce holds in Lebanon refugee camp By SCHEHEREZADE FARAMARZI, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 2 minutes ago
TRIPOLI, Lebanon - Hundreds of Palestinian civilians carrying their belongings in plastic bags trickled out of a besieged refugee camp Wednesday, taking advantage of a truce in fighting that mostly held overnight.
About 15,000 — nearly half the camp's residents — fled Tuesday night and another 1,000 left Wednesday, officials said. Those fleeing reported bodies littering Nahr el-Bared's streets and scenes of blasted buildings and destruction. U.N. officials said the bodies of at least 20 civilians have been retrieved from the camp.
It was unclear how long the truce would hold, and there were fears that allowing civilians out could be a prelude for a major showdown.
The Lebanese government has said it's determined to uproot the militant Fatah Islam, and on Wednesday, the army reinforced its positions around Nahr el-Bared.
A militant who identified himself as Fatah Islam's deputy leader told The Associated Press the group would never surrender and vowed to fight to the death if attacked.
"We are ready to enter into a permanent cease-fire on condition we stay, military action against us is halted and life is allowed to return to normal in the camp," said the militant, who goes by the name Abu Hureira.
He sat on the floor of a dimly lit building basement deep inside the camp, the entrance packed with canned food and fruit.
"If they enter, we are ready. They can try but they won't be able to. They will face a massacre," he said, speaking with a Lebanese Arabic accent.
Occasional gunshots were heard overnight, witnesses said. But the relative lull in fighting gave residents the opportunity to flee the battle-scared Nahr el-Bared.
"It's very tense," said Rania Mustafa, 23, holding the hand of a child and carrying a baby in her arms. Other women carrying children were seen stepping over broken glass and garbage and walking around wrecked cars. A loose cow roamed on another street.
Many of the fleeing refugees have moved to a nearby Palestinian refugee camp at Beddawi, where U.N. relief officials and local provided shelter, mattresses, food and water.
Twenty-nine soldiers and at least 20 militants have been killed since the battle began Sunday in the heaviest internal fighting in Lebanon since the 1975-90 civil war.
Taleb al-Salhani, a security officer with the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees, said the bodies of 20 civilians — men, women and children — have been retrieved from the camp. The total number of civilian casualties remained unknown.
The fighting raises the prospect that parts of Lebanon could become havens for terrorists training to attack the West — similar to lawless regions in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The small country is home to some 215,000 Palestinian refugees who live in a dozen camps rife with armed groups and Islamic extremists, including Fatah Islam.
A senior official of the radical Palestinian faction Islamic Jihad warned that a Lebanese army assault at Nahr el-Bared would trigger violence in other camps.
A group of Palestinians in Lebanon's largest refugee camp, Ein el-Hilweh in the south, said they will form "Jihadi groups" to fight alongside Fatah Islam, according to an Internet statement posted Wednesday. The claim could not be independently verified, but it was posted on a Web site commonly used by Islamic extremists.
"Your brothers announce structuring Jihadi groups in Ein el-Hilweh to respond to the dire atrocities in Nahr el-Bared refugee camp," the statement read.
Fatah Islam's leader, Palestinian Shaker al-Absi, has been linked to the former head of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and is believed to have recruited about 100 fighters, including militants from Saudi Arabia, Yemen and other Arab countries.
The military's attack on the camp also has raised fears the fighting could destabilize Lebanon's uneasy balance among its many religious sects and factions. The U.S.-backed government already faces a domestic political crisis, with the Iranian- and Syrian-backed Hezbollah militant group campaigning for its removal.
But so far, the opposition has supported the assault. The Shiite Muslims of Hezbollah deeply oppose Sunni militant groups like Fatah Islam, and the movement issued a statement stressing the military's duty to safeguard the country.
The Bush administration also has backed Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora and has hinted that it suspected Syria's involvement. The White House has said the militants wanted to distract international attention from an effort at the U.N. to establish a tribunal to try suspects in the 2005 assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.
Lebanese security officials accuse Syria of using Fatah Islam to destabilize Lebanon, a charge Damascus denies. Syria controlled Lebanon for decades until it was forced to withdraw its troops after Hariri's assassination. |
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| emc^2 |
George, really - whatever. seriously. i don't give a sh!t, with all due respect as to what you think of my statements or how you interpret them. if I worried about every nitwit who thought he was the next greatest debater/champion of peoples' rights, I'd lose much beloved and needed sleep at night. Alas, I recently realized that I don't give a rat's ass about some nutcases that are so prevalent on these here forums. With all due respect, of course.
Feel free to attempt to elicit further reaction from me - I figure it's nice to have a hobby, the kind that keeps your chubby fingers hard at work and working out on your (possibly much worn-out) keyboard.
so, with that said - fire away! :clown: |
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| Krypton |
| The Americans are flying in planeloads of ammunition for the Lebanese government, which has sort of announced its own war on terrorism, which, probably doesn't include Hezbollah. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by emc^2
George, really - whatever. seriously. i don't give a sh!t, |
That's great. Good for you. But it doesn't detract from the fact that your first and first-half of your second paragraph made sense, and then you descended into some mad rant that came across as some madman screaming about some random problem he has with the world. I don't understand what your point is or how you are trying to make it (other than it is obviously intended to criticise people who are "pro" Palestinian in your eyes)
Perhaps you could elaborate on what you mean? |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
The Americans are flying in planeloads of ammunition for the Lebanese government, which has sort of announced its own war on terrorism, which, probably doesn't include Hezbollah. |
Why on Earth would it include Hizballah?!?!?!?! |
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| Marc Summers |
OK what the hell?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18857073/
| quote: | TRIPOLI, Lebanon - Military aid began arriving Friday after the United States said it will rush supplies to the Lebanese army fighting al-Qaida-inspired Islamic militants barricaded inside a Palestinian refugee camp in the country’s north.
Meanwhile, sporadic gunfire exchanges early Friday punctured the lull in the fighting as the Lebanese army continued to build up around the Nahr el-Bared refugee camp near the port city of Tripoli.
The move appeared to be either a preparation to storm the camp — a maze of narrow streets and tightly packed residential buildings where hundreds of Fatah Islam militants are holed up — or a tightening of the siege to force them to surrender. Thousands of Palestinian refugees are also trapped inside.
Two military transports landed at the Beirut airport Friday morning, spotted by many residents of the capital. The military refused to comment, apparently because of the sensitivity of the matter.
Security officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the media, said that a United Arab Emirates air force plane had landed late Thursday with the first supplies.
U.S. expedites shipment
A Pentagon official said Thursday that the United States would provide ammunition and other equipment to the Lebanese army in a military airlift of eight planes. A U.S. military official said the Lebanese government had asked the U.S. to expedite a shipment of a broad range of equipment and ammunition already in the pipeline for delivery.
Lebanese officials subsequently told Washington they needed the ammunition right away, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue. All of the materials en route had previously been requested, the agreements were already in place, and they were in the delivery process, the official said.
Although U.S. officials said the military aid to Lebanon had been agreed to before the fighting
broke out this week, the speedy shipment Friday marked the first tangible U.S. backing of the Lebanese authorities in their fight with the militants.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Thursday renewed the Bush administration’s strong support of the Lebanese government.
“I certainly hope that the Lebanese government will be able to deal with these extremists,” Rice said. “It’s just another example of extremists in the Middle East who are trying to destabilize democratic governments.”
U.S. military assistance was renewed after Syria withdrew troops from Lebanon in 2005, and increased after last year’s summer war between Lebanese Hezbollah militants and Israel.
Hoping that a boosted army could eventually disarm Hezbollah, the U.S. has pledged $40 million in military aid. Lebanon’s 70,000-strong army is underarmed and overstretched, with army leaders complaining of a lack of heavy armor, anti-aircraft missiles and the absence of an air force.
Fatal Islam leader threatens more violence
At the camp, gunfire had grown heavier Thursday shortly after nightfall and continued on and off through early Friday, as both sides probe each other’s defenses. Troops have entrenched their positions around the camp but did not appear to be attempting to advance. Reinforcements from other regions are also arriving, mostly drawn from elite commando units.
A deputy Fatah Islam leader threatened more violence if the army attacks Nahr el-Bared. Abu Hureira told the pan-Arab Al Hayat daily by telephone that “sleeper cells” in other Palestinian camps and elsewhere in Lebanon were awaiting word for a “violent response.”
The fighting in Lebanon, which erupted Sunday when police raided suspected Fatah Islam hideouts in Tripoli while searching for men wanted in a bank robbery, has killed some 50 combatants and many civilians.
Thousands of Palestinian civilians — mainly women and children — have fled the camp on the outskirts of this northern port city, but thousands still remain inside.
Amid the swell of international support, Prime Minister Fuad Saniora vowed to wipe out Fatah Islam. In a televised address Thursday, he said that Fatah Islam was “a terrorist organization ... attempting to ride on the suffering and the struggle of the Palestinian people.”
“We will work to root out and strike at terrorism, but we will embrace and protect our brothers in the camps,” Saniora said, insisting Lebanon has no quarrel with the 400,000 Palestinian refugees living in the country.
Under a 1969 agreement, Lebanese military stays out of the camps that are run by the Palestinians.
'Fight until the last moment'
But Abu Salim Taha, a spokesman for the militants, repeated late Thursday that Fatah Islam would never surrender or flee but “fight until the last moment, the last drop of blood and the last bullet.”
Storming the Nahr el-Bared camp — a densely built-up town of narrow streets on the Mediterranean coast — could mean rough urban fighting for Lebanese troops and further death and destruction for the civilians inside.
It also could spark unrest in Lebanon’s 11 other Palestinian refugee camps. Although Palestinian factions have dissociated themselves from Fatah Islam, refugees in other camps, which are rife with armed groups, are angry over army bombardments that have partially destroyed Nahr el-Bared. |
I like Lebanon. I just don't understand why the US is helping them now militarily, when there was just a war between israel...?? What happens if there is another Israel/Lebanon conflict? Will the US switch sides?
:o |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Marc Summers
OK what the hell?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18857073/
I like Lebanon. I just don't understand why the US is helping them now militarily, when there was just a war between israel...?? What happens if there is another Israel/Lebanon conflict? Will the US switch sides?
:o |
There was never a war bewteen Israel and Lebanon, Lebanon just happened to be the battle ground that Israel's war against Hizballah took place (it was also Lebanon and it's citizens that took the brunt of that war)
It is true however, that Hizballah are revered as heroes in almost all sections of Lebanese society, including the Christians, for liberating the country against Israeli occupation. Even the political opposition applauds Hizballah as liberators and all agree that Hizballah should not be opposed as Israel/America want as they see them as defenders of Lebanon against an aggressive Israel.
I should also point out that nobody in Lebanon can oppose them (militarily) as they are a far far stronger and advanced force than anything the military can boast (which people should bare in mind when they idiotically approve of tough action against Lebanon for "not doing anything about Hizballah") |
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