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Human rights in Iraq by British soldiers (pg. 2)
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
I'm not sure what you're saying? You seem to be implying that the only way to emerge victorious in this "war" is to use the same tactics of these "animals" you describe. Should we kidnap random Iraqis and tortue them? Should we behead suspected terrorists in front of the world's media?
What exactly are you trying to say here? |
No one likes to fight.... well at least any civilized person that lives with his or her mind. But there comes a time in life that morals and civility have no place. Its a tight rope George, its a focking tight rope. We stay people die, we leave people die.
We turn up the heat; we are being uncivilised, we stay the course with our present rules of engagement; we are still focked and 1000s of innocents continue to die.
focking el busho, man. we should of stayed in Afganastan and never left till the job was done....
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I think our rules of engagement, our morals and our beliefs might be the only weapon we can use against these people if we don't want to make this conflict any worse. |
The people, yes, it will work for the people. I am sure that the majority of the people just want to live a peace filled life...
its the muslim radical that is focking it up....
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Unfortunately it may be too late for that. Our complete lack of understanding (and continued lack of understanding) of Iraqi and Arabic culture has led to this mess and unless we begin to educate ourselves about Arabic and Islamic culture then we will continue to fail in Iraq.
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True, |
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| George Smiley |
So what exactly are you proposing?
:conf: |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
So what exactly are you proposing?
:conf: |
The Total Withdraw of all forces from Iraq.
and I say that with a heavy heart cause right now, the way things are. Its damned if we do, damned if we don't. and people will die :( |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
The Total Withdraw of all forces from Iraq.
and I say that with a heavy heart cause right now, the way things are. Its damned if we do, damned if we don't. and people will die :( |
True.
No insurgency has won though without outside help. That would be Iran/Syria. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
True.
No insurgency has won though without outside help. That would be Iran/Syria. |
Yea we should go to war with them next shouldn't we? |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
True.
No insurgency has won though without outside help. That would be Iran/Syria. |
True, but Iran is not going to last long in its present form... the people and the youth are tired of AMIANASSORWHATamed rule. People in developed nations are starting to see through all the BS that they have been fed. Syria is a mystery to me. But Iran, the people are hard working and honorable. They will not take AMIANASSORWHATamed much longer. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
True, but Iran is not going to last long in its present form... the people and the youth are tired of AMIANASSORWHATamed rule. People in developed nations are starting to see through all the BS that they have been fed. Syria is a mystery to me. But Iran, the people are hard working and honorable. They will not take AMIANASSORWHATamed much longer. |
What's that based on? |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
What's that based on? |
Uhhh, the Iranian Reformist Movement? Duh...
| quote: | | Yea we should go to war with them next shouldn't we? |
If the US wants to defeat this insurgency, they have to cut off the outside help. How they do it, thru' diplomacy, 'soft revolution', or war is up to the politicians. If the US 'cuts n runs', then it really doesn't matter then, send them home now. Let Iran have all the fun they want with Iraq. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Uhhh, the Iranian Reformist Movement? Duh... |
You mean that you know there is a reformist movement, or you know that it enjoys the support of the majority of the population?
| quote: | | If the US wants to defeat this insurgency, they have to cut off the outside help. How they do it, thru' diplomacy, 'soft revolution', or war is up to the politicians. If the US 'cuts n runs', then it really doesn't matter then, send them home now. Let Iran have all the fun they want with Iraq. |
But are the Sunnis not doing as much damage as the Shia? More to the point, why has everybody forgotten that the Sunnis, not the Shia, are supposed to be the enemy in this "war on terror"? You also make the false and dangerous assumption that the insurgency is a) unified, b) made up of foreign nationals and c) entirely foreign funded. It is an insurgency where maybe 10% militants are foreign and the rest are Iraqi. They are not unified either, they all form small groups depending on religion or politics.
By categorising the insurgency as one harmoneous group funded and supported by one source, you make a very ignorant but more importantly dangerous observation that if adhered to by our policy makers will prove disasterous for Iraq (and is doing so) |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
You mean that you know there is a reformist movement, or you know that it enjoys the support of the majority of the population?
But are the Sunnis not doing as much damage as the Shia? More to the point, why has everybody forgotten that the Sunnis, not the Shia, are supposed to be the enemy in this "war on terror"? You also make the false and dangerous assumption that the insurgency is a) unified, b) made up of foreign nationals and c) entirely foreign funded. It is an insurgency where maybe 10% militants are foreign and the rest are Iraqi. They are not unified either, they all form small groups depending on religion or politics.
By categorising the insurgency as one harmoneous group funded and supported by one source, you make a very ignorant but more importantly dangerous observation that if adhered to by our policy makers will prove disasterous for Iraq (and is doing so) |
Really don't know what you mean by 'forgotten' the Sunnis...
I made no a, b, c assumptions, you did, then said I made them. I know it's not unified, etc. But the reason they are so strong is solely because of outside help. Do you actually believe the Iraqi people support the terrorism? Hell no, otherwise, they'de be in a peace by now. I am not saying the help comes from one source, but the main culprits are Iran/Syria, and we have yet to negociate or deal with them in any constructive way. |
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| M.Johan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
The enemy just puts a bullet in your head after excruciating torture. The coalition does not execute prisoners en masse or systematically torture them. Are we finding detainees floating in the rivers with bullet holes in the back of their heads? NO.
I'm not condoning any illegal acts, but our enemy is much much worse. At least we prosecute our violations. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Uhhh, the Iranian Reformist Movement? Duh...If the US wants to defeat this insurgency, they have to cut off the outside help. How they do it, thru' diplomacy, 'soft revolution', or war is up to the politicians. If the US 'cuts n runs', then it really doesn't matter then, send them home now. Let Iran have all the fun they want with Iraq. |
That enemy is supported by yours.
Great difference between the Iraqi resistance &........
:rolleyes:
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
True, but Iran is not going to last long in its present form... the people and the youth are tired of AMIANASSORWHATamed rule. People in developed nations are starting to see through all the BS that they have been fed. Syria is a mystery to me. But Iran, the people are hard working and honorable. They will not take AMIANASSORWHATamed much longer. |
i've told u before
no media lies |
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| Dervish |
"Ohhh DRAMA!!!" lol you guys realise that the Geneva convention IS being observed.... it's just the HRA.... the same thing that has for example lead to claims against the goverment about prisoners not getting to vote and about a million other pretty much BS requests.
The convention if far more applicable here (basicly = no torture). To apply the HRA would be basicly crazy given the situation. |
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