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the death of vinyl (pg. 5)
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View this Thread in Original format
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| quote: | Originally posted by basilisk
I only play WAVs... no sense in accepting anything less, I figure. I am against the use of using any sort of compressed format when DJing simply because disk space is ridiculously cheap these days... but that's just me. |
well its slightly different when people send you stuff as opposed to just buying stuff commercially.
it has nothing to do with disc space and everything to do with file transfer speeds and limits.
when artists send entire albums and even just an ep, it can take a long time via wav. its simple more economical.
and if they want to send it to me that way, provided the quality is ok, then that's fine by me. that's certainly how's it done with most things these days aside of physical cdrs and baring ftp accounts. |
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| Skipper |
| quote: | Originally posted by DarkAngel
Carrying his bag into a club for a gig = needing physical therapy the next day + maximum strength pain killers. :wtf: |
Your friend sounds like a bit of a wuss....
I think as a DJ who plays out it's important to be able to play both vinyl and digital. At the end of the day though, the medium is not the message - as far as DJing goes, anyways. |
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| Quadlow |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
Your friend sounds like a bit of a wuss....
I think as a DJ who plays out it's important to be able to play both vinyl and digital. At the end of the day though, the medium is not the message - as far as DJing goes, anyways. |
This isn't all directed at you skipper just the first part. FYI.
Important to who? The punters who can’t evolve? The chaps that fail to see CDJ’s as an advancement but rather a different means? The people in the crowd whom 90 percent of which have no idea what you are doing and just want to hear solid beats?
Honestly I find it rather nauseating how a lot of people refuse to see this technology as a blessing that allows us to do more with music and not just a new way to play it.
Here in Detroit I have found a lot of the people who bastardized using such technology only because they either refuse or cannot learn it. Also most of those people who still use Vinyl should be using said technology because after 10 years they still cannot beat match.
While I do believe it should almost be a prerequisite for newer DJ’s to be able to spin Vinyl I don’t feel as if they should make a point to play out with some to make “other” people feel better about there performance. I spun on Vinyl for 6 years before making the move to digital and couldn’t be happier and honestly it reflects in my performances in a very positive manner.
Everyone should do what they feel comfortable with and with what allows them to do the most with there music. While vinyl might be able to appease the first part of that statement it will never be able to fulfill the second part.
Here is little quote from Holden:
"it seems like there are two streams of post-vinyl dj-gear - the stuff that tries to emulate vinyl and saves you carrying a record box around (technics cd players, serato..) and some stuff that tries to go beyond (pioneer cd players just about, traktor..) and i just don't understand the point of the first lot. if i wanted to be limited to the mundane act of fading between two records i'd carry vinyl around.. good for the stomach muscles and luddites think you're cooler." |
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| MikeyN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Invasionmix
That's a great quote. |
i think it may have been by frankie bones, i cant find the damn video ! or maybe i got it mixed up with the frankie bones interview where he said "trance is like chocolate ice cream and my style is buster custard" |
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| quote: | Originally posted by Quadlow
This isn't all directed at you skipper just the first part. FYI.
Important to who? The punters who can’t evolve? The chaps that fail to see CDJ’s as an advancement but rather a different means? The people in the crowd whom 90 percent of which have no idea what you are doing and just want to hear solid beats?
Honestly I find it rather nauseating how a lot of people refuse to see this technology as a blessing that allows us to do more with music and not just a new way to play it.
Here in Detroit I have found a lot of the people who bastardized using such technology only because they either refuse or cannot learn it. Also most of those people who still use Vinyl should be using said technology because after 10 years they still cannot beat match.
While I do believe it should almost be a prerequisite for newer DJ’s to be able to spin Vinyl I don’t feel as if they should make a point to play out with some to make “other” people feel better about there performance. I spun on Vinyl for 6 years before making the move to digital and couldn’t be happier and honestly it reflects in my performances in a very positive manner.
Everyone should do what they feel comfortable with and with what allows them to do the most with there music. While vinyl might be able to appease the first part of that statement it will never be able to fulfill the second part.
Here is little quote from Holden:
"it seems like there are two streams of post-vinyl dj-gear - the stuff that tries to emulate vinyl and saves you carrying a record box around (technics cd players, serato..) and some stuff that tries to go beyond (pioneer cd players just about, traktor..) and i just don't understand the point of the first lot. if i wanted to be limited to the mundane act of fading between two records i'd carry vinyl around.. good for the stomach muscles and luddites think you're cooler." |
i think you're entirely misinterpreting what she's saying.
she's saying the medium doesn't matter, and you're belabouring the point that it in a very marginal way, it does... in the sense that some people choose to play certain mediums for reasons that have nothing to do with the music itself, but rather the medium.
your comment about the 90 percent of the crowd not caring is - i think - exactly what she's saying actually; most don't give a what the music is imprinted on.
that said, there are still tunes and releases out there that are only issued on vinyl. for that reason alone, its good to keep up with both. even top djs who spin only cds are playing vinyl rips as it is, so take that for whatever its worth.
regarding holden's comment... wow, if all he can think to do with records is fade 2 of them in and out in the first place, then yeah, i can see how he'd think that some of the digital alternatives he's mentioning would be leaps and bounds better. i've never heard him live before, but i think i'd be bored to tears, from a technical standpoint, if all he did in the vinyl only days was really just fade 2 records as he's describing. |
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| Skipper |
| quote: | Originally posted by -g-
i think you're entirely misinterpreting what she's saying.
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Indeed.
I think a good DJ should learn as many means of DJing as they can just because a wide skill set is better than a narrow one. Take promos for example - some artists still distribute promos on vinyl and only vinyl. It would suck to get such a promo and not be able to play it because you decided turntables were going out of style and never bothered to learn how to play on them. |
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| Quadlow |
| quote: | Originally posted by -g-
i think you're entirely misinterpreting what she's saying.
she's saying the medium doesn't matter, and you're belabouring the point that it in a very marginal way, it does... in the sense that some people choose to play certain mediums for reasons that have nothing to do with the music itself, but rather the medium.
your comment about the 90 percent of the crowd not caring is - i think - exactly what she's saying actually; most don't give a what the music is imprinted on. |
No you’re misinterpreting what I said. Distinctively in my post I said the first part which would be the first paragraph of my post was directed at her. I wasn’t trying to belabor anyone at all. I just wanted to know what benefits she saw coming from another DJ that spins out regularly, what in today’s day is there a need for spinning both.
I understand that the medium is not the message and never questioned that at all. If the reasons have nothing to do with the music itself then what or reasons were there? She answered my question which is fine I just curious.
| quote: | Originally posted by -g-
even top djs who spin only cds are playing vinyl rips as it is, so take that for whatever its worth. |
Actually that is completely wrong. Most top DJ’s that are playing CDs are playing digital versions that were provided to them by either the artist or the label.
I have also never heard of a DJ that honestly buys vinyl and rips them to MP3 or wave when the release is available as a master digital copy for distribution. That would be the most redundant thing ever. Unless they are still getting vinyl for the keepsake part of it but I would be very interested in seeing one that would still rip the vinyl instead of just getting a digital copy to play.
| quote: | Originally posted by -g-
regarding holden's comment... wow, if all he can think to do with records is fade 2 of them in and out in the first place, then yeah, i can see how he'd think that some of the digital alternatives he's mentioning would be leaps and bounds better. i've never heard him live before, but i think i'd be bored to tears, from a technical standpoint, if all he did in the vinyl only days was really just fade 2 records as he's describing. |
It’s funny that you say that because Holden is probably one of the most technical and musically sound big DJ’s playing right now. The first time I saw him spin in 2003 he was spinning on CD’s so I cannot speak for which means he used before that.
He is one of the young guns so that technology was available to him right around when he first started spinning. When he says fading in and out he doesn’t mean just fading in and out of breakdowns it just means mixing records back and forth. There is no looping; you cannot set up cue points, no option for digital manipulation and such to make mixes and performances more interesting.
Anyways thats for the converstation, like I said I'm wasn't trying to +1 anybody or anything just looking to add my opinion and ask a question. Also your website isn't loading correctly either, didn't know if you knew that.
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
Indeed.
I think a good DJ should learn as many means of DJing as they can just because a wide skill set is better than a narrow one. Take promos for example - some artists still distribute promos on vinyl and only vinyl. It would suck to get such a promo and not be able to play it because you decided turntables were going out of style and never bothered to learn how to play on them. |
There we go that is all I wanted to know. I have ran into that problem on only a few occasions and most can be solved by contacting the artist for the MP3 if it is not available for download. I just can’t bring myself lately to make the purchase of vinyl for just a few records. It sucks not being able to play though but usually after a bit of time they are available for download some were. |
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| -g- |
| quote: | Originally posted by Quadlow
Actually that is completely wrong. Most top DJ’s that are playing CDs are playing digital versions that were provided to them by either the artist or the label.
I have also never heard of a DJ that honestly buys vinyl and rips them to MP3 or wave when the release is available as a master digital copy for distribution. That would be the most redundant thing ever. Unless they are still getting vinyl for the keepsake part of it but I would be very interested in seeing one that would still rip the vinyl instead of just getting a digital copy to play.
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let me provide a partial list for you:
Derrick Carter
Little Louie Vega
Jazzy Jeff
Justin Long
Mark Farina
Jesse Rose
Jacob London
Iz & Diz
Claude Von Stroke
Mastiksoul
Switch
Fred Everything
and those are just off the top of my head.
i know they do this because i either know those guys and/or others who know them, and in the case of louie and jazzy jeff they've actually explicitly mentioned it in interviews.
for that matter, you can add me to that list too, and i;m not bragging or whatever, but i do get a ton of sent to me from producers and djs as it is. i still feel the need, and am rewarded consistently, for checking the releases every week.
at the end of the day, there's still that gets put out on wax that just doesn't come out digitally. and as small as the electonic music world is, not everyone knows everyone to the extent that there's this mass database of music we all just download from.
by and large these digital files get shared through personal file transfers between djs, producers, and labels. if you wanna be lazy and just let the music come to you, its easy to do that too, but djs who rely entirely on that end up not sounding too original. the real djs dig around to find the more osbscure stuff, be that in some weird internet shop nobody knows about, or some odd vinyl shop, the point is the same. that goes for any genre.
| quote: | Originally posted by Quadlow
It’s funny that you say that because Holden is probably one of the most technical and musically sound big DJ’s playing right now. The first time I saw him spin in 2003 he was spinning on CD’s so I cannot speak for which means he used before that.
He is one of the young guns so that technology was available to him right around when he first started spinning. When he says fading in and out he doesn’t mean just fading in and out of breakdowns it just means mixing records back and forth. There is no looping; you cannot set up cue points, no option for digital manipulation and such to make mixes and performances more interesting.
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maybe he really is very good technically; i've never heard him so i don't know. but i'll say if he is, then he is entirely misrepresenting himself in that quote.
setting up cue points for loops, etc. is great and all, but ultimately just makes things a lil easier. u can do exactly the same thing manually, and i'd certainly hope he's using more than 2 decks anyway.
you might be able to tell from the djs i listed above, and the fact i've never heard holden, that my musical preferences are not with the prog/trance thing... i find the djs i've heard in those genres almost uniformly boring, from a technical standpoint. i like very aggressive mixing, beat juggling, 3 deck stuff with acapellas thrown in and weird, non electronic stuff playing over top, and done so fast, on the fly, worrying about the correct speed as you go rather than taking time to work it out in the cue. i also come from a hip hop background, so you might see where i'm coming from with regards to technique there.
anyway to say that its all digital these days... well its becoming more and more true, but its simply not the case today. even what we see as digital(cds) may not have originated that way when taken from the source release.
| quote: | Originally posted by Quadlow
Anyways thats for the converstation, like I said I'm wasn't trying to +1 anybody or anything just looking to add my opinion and ask a question. Also your website isn't loading correctly either, didn't know if you knew that. |
yeah i know(the +1 thing). i think tho that there's this all pervasive idea that vinyl is not relevant today, and i think its just selling things a little bit shorter than is the case, and that some may not realize the extent to which vinyl is still used today, even in a sort of roundabout way. it won't be long before it really is kinda of not relevant, but not yet!
hmmmmm - my website seems to be working ok for me here.
you mean this one? -- > www.djmikegleeson.com |
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| -g- |
i guess i should also add - by and large most of the tunes will def. be digital in nature. but its just those few new, obscure tracks for which the vinyl rip thing applies.
also, and i guess this goes without saying, all the old stuff that was released before digital and isn't available digitally anyway, that gets ripped too. |
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| yellow1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by -g-
i guess i should also add - by and large most of the tunes will def. be digital in nature. but its just those few new, obscure tracks for which the vinyl rip thing applies.
also, and i guess this goes without saying, all the old stuff that was released before digital and isn't available digitally anyway, that gets ripped too. |
regardless what format ppl play, be aware of all the pros and cons in quality delivery. In digital format, you can control data rates and streaming levels, all which can affect the sound quality. I have played with sound for a long long time, and a good tech can tweak audio to sound good or bad, no matter the system it's played on, or the quality of the source or copied file.
playing records or digital files via mp3's does not make the dj or artist, it's what you can do with the equipment on hand and what's in your box!! |
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| *~LiSa-LoO~* |
| quote: | Originally posted by yellow1
what to do with my thousands of records? |
keep them...soon they'll be collectibles. |
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| -g- |
| quote: | Originally posted by yellow1
regardless what format ppl play, be aware of all the pros and cons in quality delivery. In digital format, you can control data rates and streaming levels, all which can affect the sound quality. I have played with sound for a long long time, and a good tech can tweak audio to sound good or bad, no matter the system it's played on, or the quality of the source or copied file.
playing records or digital files via mp3's does not make the dj or artist, it's what you can do with the equipment on hand and what's in your box!! |
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