It's the ubiquitous research paper on Iraq again, and I've got a question.
Was Saddam's Iraq directly involved with Al-Qaida?
In my research, I have read that Iraqi agents might of met with members of the Hamburg cell, with Czech intelligence finding the schedule list of the Iraqi agent in Prague (from the Iraqi embassy after Saddam was deposed). My research has really only begun, and I have a week.
I'm wondering what any of you smart ones know about this important issue, as it is one of the justifications for invading Iraq. My paper takes the side that the invasion of Iraq was not the right thing to do at the time (as Saddam had not violated other nation's sovereignty).
MisterOpus1
quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
It's the ubiquitous research paper on Iraq again, and I've got a question.
Was Saddam's Iraq directly involved with Al-Qaida?
In my research, I have read that Iraqi agents might of met with members of the Hamburg cell, with Czech intelligence finding the schedule list of the Iraqi agent in Prague (from the Iraqi embassy after Saddam was deposed). My research has really only begun, and I have a week.
I'm wondering what any of you smart ones know about this important issue, as it is one of the justifications for invading Iraq. My paper takes the side that the invasion of Iraq was not the right thing to do at the time (as Saddam had not violated other nation's sovereignty).
Gawd I hate to pull a Wikipedia out on ya here, but it has both sources that I was Googling - the 9/11 Commission Report and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. So forgive me for the direct quote, but it's good enough:
quote:
The 9/11 Commission also addressed the question of an alleged Prague connection and listed many of the reasons above that such a meeting could not have taken place. The report notes that "the FBI has gathered intelligence indicating that Atta was in Virginia Beach on April 4 (as evidenced by a bank surveillance camera photo), and in Coral Springs, Florida on April 11, where he and Shehhi leased an apartment. On April 6, 9, 10, and 11, Atta's cellular telephone was used numerous times to call various lodging establishments in Florida from cell sites within Florida. We cannot confirm that he placed those calls. But there are no U.S. records indicating that Atta departed the country during this period." Combining FBI and Czech intelligence investigations, "[n]o evidence has been found that Atta was in the Czech Republic in April 2001." The Commission assessed that "There was no reason for such a meeting, especially considering the risk it would pose to the operation. By April 2001, all four pilots had completed most of their training, and the muscle hijackers were about to begin entering the United States. The available evidence does not support the original Czech report of an Atta-Ani meeting."
In the final analysis, the 9/11 Commission Report makes this statement: "These findings cannot absolutely rule out the possibility that Atta was in Prague on April 9, 2001. He could have used an alias to travel and a passport under that alias, but this would be an exception to his practice of using his true name while traveling (as he did in January and would in July when he took his next overseas trip)." (p. 229)
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Postwar findings support CIA's January 2003 assessment, which judged that "the most reliable reporting casts doubt" on...an alleged meeting between Muhammad Atta and an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague, and confirm that no such meeting occurred...Prewar assessments described reporting on the Atta lead as contradictory and unverified. In September 2002, CIA assessed that some evidence asserted that the two met, and some cast doubt on the possibility. By January 2003, CIA assessed that...they were "increasingly skeptical that Atta traveled to Prague in 2001 or met with IIS officer al-Ani." Postwar debriefings of al-Ani indicate that he had never seen or heard of Atta until after September 11, 2001, when Atta's face appeared on the news
Bottom line, the evidence didn't pan out on this theory with our intelligence agencies, nor with the Prague agency, nor with any agency for that matter.
erdega
Linking AQ and Saddam Hussein regime is similar to linking Bush regime to Michael Moore or Cindy Sheehan. It's completelly opposite and you don't need some cia paper to tell you that either. In my talks with Iraqis , I've been told that he preferred christians in his surrounding that were protected under his rule but have now been largely decimated after american invasion/occupation and emergence of AQ
Yoepus
It avoid the topic; your research paper probably doesn't have all the room to cover such issues.
I would also avoid the legal argument if your argument is that going to war with Iraq was not right. (Iraq did violate the sovereignty of another nation (Kuwait) and its non-compliance with the peace treaty that followed suit gave the US and other UN countries the legal right to act with hostilities against Iraq).
I would focus more on arguments of Humanitarianism (they should have known more would be killed...) lack of preparedness of military (then again it is one of the world's readiest armies), and misknown facts.
Most anti-War demonstrators before the war were simply arguing that they didn't believe Iraq had WMD or that Iraq with WMD was not such a bad strategic reality.
It would probably be better to go with those lines than that the US didn't have a legal right.
George Smiley
IIRC it was Colin Powell who stood before the UN and stated, before the Iraq war, that the US had intelligence that suggested Saddam had links with al-Qaida (ie bin Laden). After the war started, I think it was Dick Cheney who made a similar speech at the UN, this time stating that the intelligence was wrong and there was no link between Saddam and al-Qaida.
Sukhoi29SU
Yes.
Iraq is one of seven countries that have been designated by the Secretary of State as state sponsors of international terrorism. UNSCR 687 prohibits Saddam Hussein from committing or supporting terrorism, or allowing terrorist organizations to operate in Iraq. Saddam continues to violate these UNSCR provisions.
* In 1993, the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) directed and pursued an attempt to assassinate, through the use of a powerful car bomb, former U.S. President George Bush and the Emir of Kuwait. Kuwaiti authorities thwarted the terrorist plot and arrested 16 suspects, led by two Iraqi nationals.
* Iraq shelters terrorist groups including the Mujahedin-e-Khalq Organization (MKO), which has used terrorist violence against Iran and in the 1970s was responsible for killing several U.S. military personnel and U.S. civilians.
* Iraq shelters several prominent Palestinian terrorist organizations in Baghdad, including the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), which is known for aerial attacks against Israel and is headed by Abu Abbas, who carried out the 1985 hijacking of the cruise ship Achille Lauro and murdered U.S. citizen Leon Klinghoffer.
* Iraq shelters the Abu Nidal Organization, an international terrorist organization that has carried out terrorist attacks in twenty countries, killing or injuring almost 900 people. Targets have included the United States and several other Western nations. Each of these groups have offices in Baghdad and receive training, logistical assistance, and financial aid from the government of Iraq.
* In April 2002, Saddam Hussein increased from $10,000 to $25,000 the money offered to families of Palestinian suicide/homicide bombers. The rules for rewarding suicide/homicide bombers are strict and insist that only someone who blows himself up with a belt of explosives gets the full payment. Payments are made on a strict scale, with different amounts for wounds, disablement, death as a "martyr" and $25,000 for a suicide bomber. Mahmoud Besharat, a representative on the West Bank who is handing out to families the money from Saddam, said, "You would have to ask President Saddam why he is being so generous. But he is a revolutionary and he wants this distinguished struggle, the intifada, to continue."
* Former Iraqi military officers have described a highly secret terrorist training facility in Iraq known as Salman Pak, where both Iraqis and non-Iraqi Arabs receive training on hijacking planes and trains, planting explosives in cities, sabotage, and assassinations.
In my opinion it is evident that there was a clear link between Hussein and Al Qaeda.
MisterOpus1
quote:
Originally posted by Sukhoi29SU
Yes.
Iraq is one of seven countries that have been designated by the Secretary of State as state sponsors of international terrorism. UNSCR 687 prohibits Saddam Hussein from committing or supporting terrorism, or allowing terrorist organizations to operate in Iraq. Saddam continues to violate these UNSCR provisions.
* In 1993, the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) directed and pursued an attempt to assassinate, through the use of a powerful car bomb, former U.S. President George Bush and the Emir of Kuwait. Kuwaiti authorities thwarted the terrorist plot and arrested 16 suspects, led by two Iraqi nationals.
* Iraq shelters terrorist groups including the Mujahedin-e-Khalq Organization (MKO), which has used terrorist violence against Iran and in the 1970s was responsible for killing several U.S. military personnel and U.S. civilians.
* Iraq shelters several prominent Palestinian terrorist organizations in Baghdad, including the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), which is known for aerial attacks against Israel and is headed by Abu Abbas, who carried out the 1985 hijacking of the cruise ship Achille Lauro and murdered U.S. citizen Leon Klinghoffer.
* Iraq shelters the Abu Nidal Organization, an international terrorist organization that has carried out terrorist attacks in twenty countries, killing or injuring almost 900 people. Targets have included the United States and several other Western nations. Each of these groups have offices in Baghdad and receive training, logistical assistance, and financial aid from the government of Iraq.
* In April 2002, Saddam Hussein increased from $10,000 to $25,000 the money offered to families of Palestinian suicide/homicide bombers. The rules for rewarding suicide/homicide bombers are strict and insist that only someone who blows himself up with a belt of explosives gets the full payment. Payments are made on a strict scale, with different amounts for wounds, disablement, death as a "martyr" and $25,000 for a suicide bomber. Mahmoud Besharat, a representative on the West Bank who is handing out to families the money from Saddam, said, "You would have to ask President Saddam why he is being so generous. But he is a revolutionary and he wants this distinguished struggle, the intifada, to continue."
* Former Iraqi military officers have described a highly secret terrorist training facility in Iraq known as Salman Pak, where both Iraqis and non-Iraqi Arabs receive training on hijacking planes and trains, planting explosives in cities, sabotage, and assassinations.
In my opinion it is evident that there was a clear link between Hussein and Al Qaeda.
I'm certainly glad you're opinion doesn't hold much weight in our intelligence community. I wonder if you could point out how any of your points above with the exception of the last claim on Salman Pak have any relation to al Qaeda and 9/11? I, and I would suspect the rest of the intelligence agencies, would be darned interested in how you could make such a connection.
In regards to your claim on Salman Pak, however, that was debunked long ago by the bipartisan Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Report in 2004 (Phase I) stated:
quote:
[-----] The Salman Pak facility outside Baghdad was an unconventional warfare training facility used by the IIS and Saddam Hussein's Fedayeen troops to train its officers for counterterrorism operations against regime opponents. The facility contained a village mockup for urban combat training and a derelict commercial aircraft.
[...]
[-----] In Iraqi Support for Terrorism, the CIA provided additional explanation of the sources of the information, noting that, "press and sensitive reporting about al-Qa'ida activity at Salman Pak � ultimately sourced to three Iraqi defectors � surged after 11 September." The CIA determined, "that at least one of these defectors, whose story appeared in Vanity Fair magazine, had embellished and exaggerated his access." Additionally, two other sources only repeated information provided by the [----] defector, and also lacked first-hand access to the information. Committee staff asked both CIA and DIA analysts whether any al-Qaida operatives or other sources have confirmed Salman Pak training allegations, and the unanimous response was that none have reported knowledge of any training. A DIA analyst told Committee staff, "The Iraqi National Congress (INC) has been pushing information for a long time about Salman Pak and training of al-Qa'ida."
It really is a booger to rely on those lying s from Chalabi's group - they really helped us get our asses in the sling that we're in. Here's what the DIA had to say about them:
quote:
An internal assessment by the Defense Intelligence Agency has concluded that most of the information provided by Iraqi defectors who were made available by the Iraqi National Congress was of little or no value, according to federal officials briefed on the arrangement. In addition, several Iraqi defectors introduced to American intelligence agents by the exile organization and its leader, Ahmad Chalabi, invented or exaggerated their credentials as people with direct knowledge of the Iraqi government and its suspected unconventional weapons program, the officials said.
If that isn't enough, try Phase II of the SSCI Report:
quote:
In a response to questions from Committee staff asking if DIA recovered or received information or intelligence, after the raid on Salman Pak in April 2003 that indicated non-Iraqis received terrorist training at the Salman Pak facility, DIA said it has "no credible reports that non-Iraqis were trained to conduct or support transnational terrorist operations at Salman Pak after 1991." DIA assessed that the foreigners were likely volunteers who traveled to Iraq in the months before Operation Iraqi Freedom began to fight overtly alongside Iraqi military forces...DIA said it has "no information from Salman Pak that links al-Qa'ida with the former regime."
In June 2006, CIA told the Committee that: There was information developed after OIF (Operation Iraqi Freedem) that indicated terrorists were trained at Salman Pak; there was an apparent surge of such reporting. As with past information, however, the reporting is vague and difficult to substantiate. As was the case with the prewar reporting, the postwar sources provided few details, and it is difficult to conclude from their second-hand accounts whether Iraq was training al-Qa'ida members, as opposed to other foreign nationals. Postwar exploitation of Salman Pak has yielded no indications that training of al-Qa'ida linked individuals took place there, and we have no information from detainees on this issue
A November 2003 assessment from DIA noted that postwar exploitation of the facility found it "devoid of valuable intelligence." The assessment added that CIA exploitation "found nothing of intelligence value remained and assessed that Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) cleaned it out." The DIA assessment concluded that "we do not know whether ex-regime trained terrorists on the aircraft at Salman Pak. Intelligence in late April 2003 indicated the plane had been dismantled. DIA and CENTCOM asses the plane was sold for scrap.
