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VST for inverting the phase?
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| Falck |
Does anyone know a VST plug-in (free if possible) to simply invert the phase of a track? We are putting a pretty good track together, but is suffers from some phase problems.
Cheers |
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| DJ RANN |
| Most sequencers allow you to invert the phase of a given audio track. Otherwise nearly all wave editors (wavelab, Peak, soundforge)have this as a basic function. Are you sure you need to invert the phase though? What's the problem? |
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| Falck |
Ok thanks for the suggestions, I'll check out the manual for Logic.
Well, I'm not sure I need invert the phase but I have to try something to isolate the cause. The problem is that the bass section gets cut out from time to time during the mix and I assume it's due to a phase problem. It's also more obvious when listening in big speakers or with a sub, so I'd figure it's some problem with the deep end bass. The bass section consists of:
- Low to mid bass line, plays almost on every note (stereo)
- Low sub bass (sine) plays between kick (mono)
- Mid, punchy kick (mono)
- Low sub kick, almost only heard on big speakers (mono)
Any ideas? |
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| SPAWNmaster |
more likely than not your frequencies are overlapping causing this problem. try side-chain ducking or sidechain compression to allow your kick to punch through those frequencies. also this is where very controlled EQ becomes essential, to keep balance in your track. a little panning never hurt anyone as well, but generally make sure the low end sounds (especially the kick) don't veer to far from center.
as always, with production use your ears and keep it all in good taste. hope this solves your problem.
cheers,
andrew |
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| DJ RANN |
SM - Don't get me wrong you are one of the few on this forum who actually know their shiznit, but I really don't understand why so many people have such hard-ons for these processes and think ducking and compression are the solution to nearly every problem.
Falck, you've listed three separate elements of your track that have low sub frequencies, not to mention mids which probably have lower harmonics that are bleeding in to those lows as well.
Remove (mute) each element one by one (in different orders) and see which one or combination is causing your phasing /mud problems.
You want to think about narrowing the bands of frequencies for each element so they sit together - you can have some overlap and the use subtle panning will also help with separation, but the key is to not have colliding frequencies. Measured compression can help to keep these frequnecies in place but it's a band aid, and not the cure. |
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| Eldritch |
Try cutting around 20-30Hz on the bassline.
Sometimes there is alot of sub frequencies that you can't even hear that eat up headroom. Anything below 30 Hz is generally considered useless, because humans can't hear it.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
You want to think about narrowing the bands of frequencies for each element so they sit together - you can have some overlap and the use subtle panning will also help with separation, but the key is to not have colliding frequencies. Measured compression can help to keep these frequnecies in place but it's a band aid, and not the cure. |
That is so true. My mixes were really muddy and wobbly before I learned this. :) |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eldritch
Anything below 30 Hz is generally considered useless, because humans can't hear it. |
They can't hear it, but they can definitely feel it in a club. |
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| zodiac9 |
I'm having the same problem right now with one of my tracks. Every once in a while this issue comes up. I usually try to choose a bass and kick that don't collide with each other. What seems to happen is, when the bass and kick sound at the same time, they "team up", and make the kick sound louder, it's get boomy in that area. I don't really understand phase shifting. I tried the fruity loops phase shifter, and it just spreads the bass out, much like a stereo expander does. I like my basses relegated to the center of my mixes.
Well anyway, I might try a little panning on the bass. I already tried rolling the bass of at 20hz, it didn't help much.
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
They can't hear it, but they can definitely feel it in a club. |
Yes, I'm starting to think it's a bad idea to cutt frequencies on the bass end. Your mix might not sound right on loudspeakers with subwoofers. Cutting frequencies should be a last resort I think. I've finally decided to leave the bass end as it is, no EQ cutts, and I master using a 10hz rolloff. |
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| Eldritch |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
They can't hear it, but they can definitely feel it in a club. |
No. The majority of the "feeling" comes from higher frequencies. The resonant frequency of the human chest is about 80Hz.
Most speakers and PA systems have built in 30hz highpass filters to protect the speakers from being damaged.
There's no point in having sub sonic frequencies in your mix if all it's going to do is eat up headroom. |
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| zodiac9 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eldritch
No. The majority of the "feeling" comes from higher frequencies. The resonant frequency of the human chest is about 80Hz.
Most speakers and PA systems have built in 30hz highpass filters to protect the speakers from being damaged.
There's no point in having sub sonic frequencies in your mix if all it's going to do is eat up headroom. |
Why does everyone disagree on this issue? Who's right, who's wrong? Damn you guys are confusing me, LOL! So Most speakers and PA systems have built in 30hz highpass filters? You said MOST, so that doesn't mean all of them do. |
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| Eldritch |
| quote: | Originally posted by zodiac9
I'm having the same problem right now with one of my tracks. Every once in a while this issue comes up. I usually try to choose a bass and kick that don't collide with each other. What seems to happen is, when the bass and kick sound at the same time, they "team up", and make the kick sound louder, it's get boomy in that area. I don't really understand phase shifting. I tried the fruity loops phase shifter, and it just spreads the bass out, much like a stereo expander does. I like my basses relegated to the center of my mixes.
Well anyway, I might try a little panning on the bass. I already tried rolling the bass of at 20hz, it didn't help much. One thing about cutting frequencies, especially bass, the super low frequencies (10-16 hz I think it is) are ones that you feel, not hear. Don't you all think it's a bad idea to start cutting frequencies on the bass end? Your mix might not sound right on loudspeakers with subwoofers. I read that whole stickie about mastering, and everyone seems to disagree on this. |
You don't want to be messing with the phase of bass and not really pan it either. The best thing to do is to EQ them so they don't fight each other, or team up as you put it. Compression can work too, but I usually solve my bass problems with EQ. It's less likely to mess up anything. |
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| Eldritch |
| quote: | Originally posted by zodiac9
Why does everyone disagree on this issue? Who's right, who's wrong? Damn you guys are confusing me, LOL! So Most speakers and PA systems have built in 30hz highpass filters? You said MOST, so that doesn't mean all of them do. |
Still, it doesn't matter as below 30Hz frequencies don't do other than make your speakers unstable or even damage them. |
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