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When does trance become house? (pg. 3)
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| DJMaytag |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
[FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#99CCEE]And trance didn't evolve from house, I don't know why people keep saying that. |
it's because it did, and those of us who were around 15+ years ago can tell ya that.
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
The trends were started in completely different places by completely different people for completely different reasons. |
By and large, ONE MAN and ONE group of artists were responsible for the birth of trance: Sven Vath and the artists under the Harthouse Label in Germany around 1992, artists like Hardfloor, Oliver Leib's various psuedonyms (Spicelab, LSG, etc), Barbarella (Vath & Ralf Hildenbeutel), Pascal FEOS (Resistance D), Matthias Hoffmann (Metal Master, Brainchild, Cygnus X, etc), Marco Zaffarano, etc.
It was started as a knee jerk reaction to the "hardcore" sounds that were popular at the time (akin to something similar to today's breakbeats, jungle, and yes... even happy hardcore) that some people didn't really care for (listen to a PVD mix from that time and you'll hear some "hardcore" tracks in them).
The gist was to strip everything down to a simple house beat and use modulating synth textures and hypnotic rhythms to create a certain vibe (the "trance" term was coined later by the media). The TB-303 acid squelch factored heavily into the equation, and was the driving force behind many of the legendary buildup in some of the most classic tracks of the day (notably those by Hardfloor).
"Trance" wasn't necessarily a genre back then, it was a type of house or techno... so long as it had that minimal hypnotic effect to it. EVERYBODY was getting into the act by 1993 and many of today's techno producers (well, those still producing anyway) were influenced by the 1992/1992 trance revolution. Aphex Twin, Orbital, CJ Bolland, The Prodigy, Casper Houser, Felix Da Housecat, Moby, Joey Beltram, Underworld, DJ Misjah, 808 State, The Orb, Speedy J, and even some of the godfathers of techno from Detroit were to be found with tracks on "trance" compilations (like this one, which claimed "100% pure quality house & techno"
Review your history before you go making claims about things from before your time. There are a few others on TA like me who were around back then... |
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| Eric J |
| Sigh...sometimes I miss the early 90's when it was all just "techno". |
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| Beat Blog |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJMaytag
it's because it did, and those of us who were around 15+ years ago can tell ya that.
By and large, ONE MAN and ONE group of artists were responsible for the birth of trance: Sven Vath and the artists under the Harthouse Label in Germany around 1992, artists like Hardfloor, Oliver Leib's various psuedonyms (Spicelab, LSG, etc), Barbarella (Vath & Ralf Hildenbeutel), Pascal FEOS (Resistance D), Matthias Hoffmann (Metal Master, Brainchild, Cygnus X, etc), Marco Zaffarano, etc.
It was started as a knee jerk reaction to the "hardcore" sounds that were popular at the time (akin to something similar to today's breakbeats, jungle, and yes... even happy hardcore) that some people didn't really care for (listen to a PVD mix from that time and you'll hear some "hardcore" tracks in them).
The gist was to strip everything down to a simple house beat and use modulating synth textures and hypnotic rhythms to create a certain vibe (the "trance" term was coined later by the media). The TB-303 acid squelch factored heavily into the equation, and was the driving force behind many of the legendary buildup in some of the most classic tracks of the day (notably those by Hardfloor).
"Trance" wasn't necessarily a genre back then, it was a type of house or techno... so long as it had that minimal hypnotic effect to it. EVERYBODY was getting into the act by 1993 and many of today's techno producers (well, those still producing anyway) were influenced by the 1992/1992 trance revolution. Aphex Twin, Orbital, CJ Bolland, The Prodigy, Casper Houser, Felix Da Housecat, Moby, Joey Beltram, Underworld, DJ Misjah, 808 State, The Orb, Speedy J, and even some of the godfathers of techno from Detroit were to be found with tracks on "trance" compilations (like this one, which claimed "100% pure quality house & techno"
Review your history before you go making claims about things from before your time. There are a few others on TA like me who were around back then... |
Finally, someone who knows what they're on about!
You forgot to mention Giuseppe Cherchia, Bruno Sanchioni, Rolf Ellmer and Markus Loffel though. :D |
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| DJMaytag |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beat Blog
Finally, someone who knows what they're on about!
You forgot to mention Giuseppe Cherchia, Bruno Sanchioni |
I thought I'd start at the beginning, rather than get into what came later, like the classics like... oh let's say, "The Age Of Love [Jam & Spoon's "Watch Out For Stella" Remix]". :happy2:
The post Vath & Harthouse talk could go on forever, so that's why I limited it. :D |
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| Aesthetic |
| Diginut is probably typing a 50 page response by now |
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| DJMaytag |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aesthetic
Diginut is probably typing a 50 page response by now |
that or he's in the corner sucking his thumb like a little baby after getting owned... |
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| echosystm |
i think the real question here is... when does house become trance?
o_O
o_O
o_O
o_O |
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| Mr.Mystery |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Never said electro house wasn't a genre, just that it has nothing to do with house music.
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Or electro for that matter. |
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| DJMaytag |
| quote: | Originally posted by echosystm
i think the real question here is... when does house become trance? |
well, I think I stated this before... but it's when you have a simple house beat and it uses modulating synth textures and hypnotic rhythms to create a that vibe.
o_O
o_O
o_O
o_O
:D
Actually, a pretty big chunk of progressive house releases from 2000-2005 would fall into the mold of ORIGINAL trance movement of the early 90's. Problem is that a lot of those weren't nearly as interesting and many were downright BORING. |
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| AgentStarchild |
It's been interesting to read how different people demarcate their definitions of house vs. trance and other things. I don't really believe in absolute definitions of any kind. All of our definitions are derivations from the definitions given by people whom we define as influences or mentors and their definitions likewise are derivations of their own. It doesn't really matter what the person was feeling who invented trance unless it matters to us and perhaps it should if it matters to those whom we are trying to influence, pitch our demos to, etc. All of us have our own reasons for making trance or making house.
The most important thing I take away from this is what type of music you're making has everything to do with motive. Sometimes I make tracks that I want to be epic; sometimes I want them to be smooth; sometimes I just want them to make people dance. It seems like trance may fit certain priorities while house or dnb may fit other priorities.
It was cool to get some historical context on trance. It seems like most genres define themselves in contrast to other genres saying basically "We're not going to be X anymore" or "We're better/purer than X because..." I like trance because it has the capacity to be spiritual amidst a world that's almost entirely cynical. When I'm making trance, I'm wanting for people to have a soundtrack for epic encounters whether on the dance-floor, in their cars, or typing essays on their laptops. That's just my definition.
I know someone's going to make fun of me for babbling nonsense like this. I just felt like people were getting too absolutist in the way they were talking ("I know what I'm talking about and you don't...", etc). Thanks for giving me stuff to think about it and tolerating my love of talking a whole lot of bullsh***.
Peace, Agent Starchild |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by AgentStarchild
It's been interesting to read how much life has been wasted on this thread |
fixed.
;) |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJMaytag
I thought I'd start at the beginning, rather than get into what came later, like the classics like... oh let's say, "The Age Of Love [Jam & Spoon's "Watch Out For Stella" Remix]". :happy2:
The post Vath & Harthouse talk could go on forever, so that's why I limited it. :D |
Good post even if it was a wiki rip:D
I'd like to point out (even if it's just for being english) that though Germany is quoted as being the Birthplace of Trance on many mainstream media sources and that Mr. Vath is certainly a pioneer of "Trance," there were many parallels of the early house and trance pioneers in the UK in the very late eighties and early nineties.
I'm not going to re-gurgitate (like ever dance music magazine does every five years - even with the same photos!) the "infamous" baleric trip that a certain bunch DJ's and promoters had in the late eighties, but what they began to produce was Trance in it's "uplifting house" guise.What Harthouse and Vath were making was known as Techno at the time - not Trance. It's only later when Trance became a genre in it's own right that it was labelled (after the fact).
It's interesting EricJ that you say Techno, because that's (prepare for semi-ignorant sweeping generalisation) what most Americans label house/Trance/Prog/etc. I remember trying to explain to my neighbour when I lived in LA, what I played and she was like "oh, you play Techno then?". One night I played some to her and she said "I thought Techno was much harder than this".....then explanation of Trance came.
And America didn't have the uplifting house Phase - it was all techno until the label trance made it over the pond.
Techno always was this much harder, glitchy, darker, less melodic, evil brother of house.
Oh, and one more thing - by pure co-incidence (or fate) I got out my original copy (bought in the early 90's) of The Age of Love about two nights ago.:) |
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