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On Optimism (pg. 10)
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| SuperJimbo |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
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LOL! Freak. |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
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You're getting the idea Jenny.
Less cute, more absurd facial expression though
Jimbo, Calvin and Hobbes FTW |
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| MissK |
WoW...I love this thread!! :):):) LOL
This should be called the self actualization thread. All these perspectives have really made me analyze and concentrate my beliefs. Although they were already there, writing them down is an evolution.
Thank you all :) |
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| SuperJimbo |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
Jimbo, Calvin and Hobbes FTW |
Amen. Or should I say, weeerrrrrdddd.
Dangit, what is this thread about again?!?!?! Ah, yes, now I remember...
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by MissK
self actualization |
(Y) |
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| shanny |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
So, faith is the only way to make one's life meaningful? And here I thought that personal relationships and personal accomplishment had something to do with that...
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Not saying its the only way to make life meaningful, but that an approach to make life meaningful wouldn't be complete without it. Personal relationships and accomplishment are what give you the blocks to build towards having faith. |
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| SuperJimbo |
| quote: | Originally posted by shanny
Not saying its the only way to make life meaningful, but that an approach to make life meaningful wouldn't be complete without it. Personal relationships and accomplishment are what give you the blocks to build towards having faith. |
You earlier positioned faith as "belief in the absence of reason" and "something that you believe against all odds".
Instead of faith, why not pursue philosophy and science as a potential source of enlightment?
Sorry, I am not sold on the notion that you need faith (as you seem to be defining it, anyway) to make your life meaningful. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by shanny
Not saying its the only way to make life meaningful, but that an approach to make life meaningful wouldn't be complete without it. Personal relationships and accomplishment are what give you the blocks to build towards having faith. |
Can you explain this further? It looks to me like most of what you've said here contradicts the first half of the first sentence.
Are you saying that faith is an end in itself? Most major religions and philosophies today consider it a means to an end. Or are you saying that faith is a necessary part of the means to an unspecified end? In which case I would say that we need to know what the end is before going any further.
I think you're reinventing the wheel here, Josh. Have you read much on Taoism? I think it's something you'd find interesting. |
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| TO guy |
| quote: | Originally posted by SuperJimbo
You earlier positioned faith as "belief in the absence of reason" and "something that you believe against all odds".
Instead of faith, why not pursue philosophy and science as a potential source of enlightment?
Sorry, I am not sold on the notion that you need faith (as you seem to be defining it, anyway) to make your life meaningful. |
The way I am reading Shanny is that since any system of philosophy/life/etc is incomplete, that faith is the added little bit to shut Gödel up, and allow the system to approach competeness.
Thats just be reading of Josh though. |
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| shanny |
| quote: | Originally posted by TO guy
The way I am reading Shanny is that since any system of philosophy/life/etc is incomplete, that faith is the added little bit to shut Gödel up, and allow the system to approach competeness.
Thats just be reading of Josh though. |
Bingo.
That is exactly what I am saying.
I have said all along that this entire idea is centred on knowing that it is a process. No one philosophical theory (utility, deontology, existentialism) is complete. There is always some time when an example can be found where it puts the ideals of that particular theory into tremendous stress.
For example, in ultilitarianism you constantly weigh the pros and cons of each situation and make the situation that maximizes benefits and minimizes harms. But what happens if you need to make the decision of having to shoot down a plane that your own daughter is on in order to stop that plane from flying into a crowded stadium and killing thousands. How do you weigh human life on this type of scale. This is an example where clearly ultility fails.
I think you could find such an example with any philosophical theory. As Craig said, no theory is complete, but there is something to be said for taking bits and pieces of all of them to put together your own philosophy. For me thats Optimism.
Even despite that though, there are obvious problems with this approach. Faith is what bridges the gap and allows you to find comfort.
I am not arguing that it is a end in itself at all. I think that to truly be able to have faith, many of the other elements of life (personal relationships, accomplishment, etc) are necessary.
Aaron and Andrew I hear what you guys are saying about not being convinced that faith is the only way to find happiness. I would argue that as life comes closer to an end this is where it becomes more and more evident. I think it is an essential part of being completely at piece with yourself. You can of course be happy without it, even fearless in the face of death without it. What I have been saying is that to maximize your enjoyment Optimism is the way to go, and the integral part of that at the end of life, is faith. |
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| Silky Johnson |
| Yeah you really need to read up on objectivism. ;) |
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