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Footage of Peter Hook (of New Order) faking a mix. (pg. 4)
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| kaniz |
| quote: | Originally posted by teufel-man
yeah how does ableton work anyways? like how do u que up tracks? or does the program do a lot of it for you?
its always boring watching a dj spin with a laptop, when he doesnt actually use any cds.... cuz half the time hes just up there clicking away on the screen.... hopefully we dont see 90% of dj's doing this sorta thing in the near future.... cuz its boring! |
Then thats the fault of the DJ for not being more interactive, and not the technology.
I've been to Mutek the past two years in montreal, and it's becoming more and more common to see laptop based sets, and even with them looking at the screens - many of the DJs still manage to be entertaining to watch and have a good level of crowd interaction.
Tools like Abelton, if used correctly - can allow for some really creative, unique and dynamic sets that are even /more/ responsive to the crowd, as the DJ is no longer caught up in doing the more technical aspects such as beat-matching, but can be more 'artistic' in how they go about things, effects, loops, layering, etc.
There is more to DJing then beatmatching two records, its about creating a set - building tension, releasing it, reading the crowd, track selection and creating unique and special moments with music, that is something that software can NOT replace.
Just because a few hacks use digital-DJing as a cop-out, does not mean that the tools as a whole are worthless. |
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| Mortyman |
| That guy is the biggest en idiot I've ever seen in my life! :rolleyes: |
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| m2j |
Man, he can't even do the running-man dance properly... he just walks back and forth...
| quote: | Originally posted by Cosmic Fur
Maan, he was twisting the out of that one knob there. Poor thing. |
whats funny is it looks like that channel is not even plugged into anything in the first video. lol |
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| teufel-man |
| quote: | Originally posted by kaniz
Then thats the fault of the DJ for not being more interactive, and not the technology.
I've been to Mutek the past two years in montreal, and it's becoming more and more common to see laptop based sets, and even with them looking at the screens - many of the DJs still manage to be entertaining to watch and have a good level of crowd interaction.
Tools like Abelton, if used correctly - can allow for some really creative, unique and dynamic sets that are even /more/ responsive to the crowd, as the DJ is no longer caught up in doing the more technical aspects such as beat-matching, but can be more 'artistic' in how they go about things, effects, loops, layering, etc.
There is more to DJing then beatmatching two records, its about creating a set - building tension, releasing it, reading the crowd, track selection and creating unique and special moments with music, that is something that software can NOT replace.
Just because a few hacks use digital-DJing as a cop-out, does not mean that the tools as a whole are worthless. |
so ableton actually beat matches the songs for you?
like i do like the idea of having more options for a dj in terms of being artistic, but it seems like the whole process of dj'ing is becoming a lot more automated
like watching someone play songs to you on a laptop is sorta pointless, the guy might as well be doing this is some back room out of sight from the crowd
i actually find that it kinda kills the mood for me if the guy is just standing up there LOOKING really bored and uninterested in the music he is playing (even though he may not actually be bored)... and it is much easier to look this way when you are just clicking away on your computer |
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| Pett |
| quote: | Originally posted by teufel-man
is this sort of thing actually fairly common among big name dj's? |
no
i've never personally seen it and im usually paying pretty good attention if im around the dj booth. I've only ever seen oakenfold use a premix cd, and it was only for a 2 tracks while he took a piss/line/drink break or something.
astral projection comes to mind thou, but i wasn't there to confirm that one.
Junkie xl doesn't pretend hes mixing thats the difference, it is what it
is. Peter's just being a complete douche by pretending to flip through his cd case then run back to ing with the eq's which by the way don't sound like they're doing much , perhaps not even moving the knobs for the most part. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
Peter Hook is doing a DJ set at the Ultra Supper club on Friday.
Source |
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| darouge11 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
Peter Hook is doing a DJ set at the Ultra Supper club on Friday. |
i want to see signs..."Its not enough that women fake orgasms, You have to ing fake your mixes!!" |
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| Orko |
| quote: | Originally posted by Pett
astral projection comes to mind thou, but i wasn't there to confirm that one. |
It was confirmed in one of the review threads about their performance in the Guv. A lot of people saw that they just qued up a set, then proceeded to 'act like a bunch of drunken idiots'.
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
Peter Hook is doing a DJ set at the Ultra Supper club on Friday.
Source |
Welcome to three pages ago... :p
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
He is playing Ultra Supper Club on the 20th of July.
Lets go and accost him. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
Welcome to three pages ago... :p |
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| kaniz |
| quote: | Originally posted by teufel-man
so ableton actually beat matches the songs for you?
like i do like the idea of having more options for a dj in terms of being artistic, but it seems like the whole process of dj'ing is becoming a lot more automated
like watching someone play songs to you on a laptop is sorta pointless, the guy might as well be doing this is some back room out of sight from the crowd
i actually find that it kinda kills the mood for me if the guy is just standing up there LOOKING really bored and uninterested in the music he is playing (even though he may not actually be bored)... and it is much easier to look this way when you are just clicking away on your computer |
I'm not an Ableton pro, but yes - there can be a high level of automation with it, including beat-matching songs, setting warp points / cues, EQ-automation, effects, loops, etc.
In theory, if you've setup your files correctly, you could probably just click/drag, not even need to listen to what your mixing. But, if your simply using Ableton to simply beat-match songs, then stand there doing douche-jesus pose the rest of the time, then that again is a matter of a DJ abusing the technology then using it to do something new and creative. That being said, if as a DJ using Vinyl or CD - if the ONLY thing you are doing is beatmatching the intro/outtro of a song then spending the rest of the time doing jesus pose, your just as much of a douche as the person abusing Ableton to do the same.
Some of the better laptop-sets I've seen, also make use of quite a bit of external hardware and are almost more of a live-PA then a DJ-set. The DJs have spent the time to cut down tracks into smaller loops so they can piece them together / layer them / etc, they will have external midi-controllers to act as triggers, modify things within abelton/etc (and thus, a bit more interesting to watch than simple mouse clicking), and also bring in their own productions / samples / loops into the mix.
Some DJs such as Richie Hawtin can really leverage the technology in new and exciting ways, and use it as a tool to build more interesting/dynamic sets while still having a good level of crowd-interaction, while other DJs use it as a crutch to simply beat-match for them as they stand there with their arms in the air being a tool.
A great example of really pushing things with Ableton would be DE9: Transitions, while it is a studio-mix, it is still a "mix" CD - with at points, there being upto 4-5 (and even more at points..) tracks being layered together to create entierly new songs - Hawtin stripped the songs down into smaller loops, then layers those loops together to create entierly new compositions.
A good read on how he's using Ableton can be found on their site, but an exepert from it
| quote: |
How do you use it nowadays?
It's kind of progressed over the last two or three years. When the first version came out, I was doing this Decks, Efx & 909 show; I was carting around some external effects boxes and effects pedals and using them to add in different effects over my DJ mixes. My first use of Live was just as an external signal processor where I would load different plug-ins and route different things from my DJ mixer into Live and back out, setting it up in such a way that I could set up feedback loops and do some interesting things. It was basically just a more efficient and more flexible way to carry effects possibilities rather than just carry, say, a Lexicon or Yamaha effects box.
The last few years it progressed into adding a couple of sound effect clips to add things on the top, and then in the last year or so, really building up my Live Sets into full-on DJ type sets. I turned to it [Live] a lot last year because I was doing the Plastikman live show. We were able to have Ableton do some customization and build a special version, which did special MIDI functionality, sending out MIDI triggers when audio clips were triggered and changed. A lot of that was implemented in Live 4. And so for the Plastikman show I had the ability to play, and I think there were about twenty-six Plastikman tracks along with external boxes and some 303s. Now on my DJ sets for the DE9: Transitions tour, I'm using Ableton as both an external effects box, routing things in and out of it again, and also for basic tracks and sound sources. So I have five or six hundred tracks in Ableton — full compositions, not just loops — full tracks that can be mixed and edited and manipulated.
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Ableton can do far more than simply beat-match songs, and if thats all a DJ is using it for - then they are a hack, and I will agree. Simply using digital-technology to replace one aspect of DJing (beatmatching), without using it to do new and interesting things is a waste. But just because some DJs are abusing it, doesnt mean that it cant be interesting and exciting.
and, some of what Ableton can do for DJs can be found here (From their site). |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| he may be faking the mixing but I still like his track selection. |
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| Orko |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
he may be faking the mixing but I still like his track selection. |
Same here. |
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