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Help harmonically mixing (pg. 2)
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| DJ RANN |
Nem, you always post a balanced argument but I really don't get what the obsession with harmonic mixes and mixing in key is about.
I think too many people obsess about theory of mixing, to the detriment of any spontinaity or creativity. A prime example of this, and heavily noted on this and other forums, is laptop sets. While they offer more control and possibilities, they drain the performance and life out of a set.
Nothing can replace practise, and knowing your tracks inside out, through listening and feeling, is and will, be the only good way to mix.
When you play out, you're going to be lucky to play 50 tracks in a set (?) Why do you need to sit there and work out which ones have the right/wrong key. Just mix them and see if they go together, again and agin. Try new things with them, it's really not hard to go through the tracks you intend to play in a given month.
Next time you have the chance to ask "pro DJ" about harmonic mixing and (apart from probably John00Fleming) give it a go and they will tell you to piss off and they just learn their choons. |
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| kadomony |
i use mixmeister to key my tracks.
it's extremely accurate and also gives you the bpm, easymix keycode and ability to sort by those |
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| Nemesis44 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
1. I think too many people obsess about theory of mixing, to the detriment of any spontinaity or creativity. A prime example of this, and heavily noted on this and other forums, is laptop sets. While they offer more control and possibilities, they drain the performance and life out of a set.
Nothing can replace practise, and knowing your tracks inside out, through listening and feeling, is and will, be the only good way to mix.
2. Next time you have the chance to ask "pro DJ" about harmonic mixing and (apart from probably John00Fleming) give it a go and they will tell you to piss off and they just learn their choons. |
On the first point I hear you most definately, especially when it comes to my experience with laptops but...
The thing that people don't seem to get is that you don't have to spend that much time in preparing anything and my sets are still spontaneus and make use of reading the crowd.
Not a dig at you personally but I can't understand people that find it challenging to incorporate all these elements. I just happen to know a bit of music theory because I produce music, and it comes as second nature to want to create a mix that sounds as pleasing and as effective to the crowd as possible.
People seem to think that Harmonic mixing is just about seemless mixing and that's not the case, there are things you can do that have a very positive effect on the crowd in terms of getting them excited i.e. modulation mixes.
I disagree with you though that it is at the expense of creativity, if you think of anything creative that you have ever heard as a DJ and thought 'wow' I would be willing to bet it's because it actually works musically.
All that HM does is take the guess work out of what will work on a general musical level, it still is no substitute for being a good DJ. But it can be something that will make you a better DJ overall.
With regards to knowing my tunes, yes I do know them. Very well indeed, but the more you produce music the easier it gets to see the common structures, it's not so much knowing your tunes but more knowing how trance as a genre is written. I can get a load of tunes that I have never heard before and unless they throw in a waltz intro or something off the wall I would stand a good chance of being able to mix them well on first go.
On the second point you made, actually you would be surprised as to how many actually do. I kid you not.
I do mix harmonically, but don't judge a DJ purely on that skill alone.
As with anything, knowledge is power and the more you have in your arsenal the better you will be as long as you don't loose sight of the ultimate goal which is to entertain people.
Cheers
Nem |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | | replacing keys with a number code, which makes it easier to know which keys work well together. |
this is just lazy. it's not really hard to memorize a sequence of 12 things
here's something start you off:
<- Cm - Fm - A#m - D#m - G#m - C#m - F#m - Bm - Em - Am - Dm - Gm ->
pianos have keys like this, not like 1A, 2A, etc. do yourself a favor and learn something that has been 'instrumental' in western music for centuries |
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| Zild |
I make harmonic mixing a habit. The way some of you talk about it though as it is a burden is ridiculous. For me it opened up many mixing possibilities I had previously overlooked. I think it probably saves me from having to do any prep work. You're not just limited to mixing into the tonic or the 5th either, but that is a good place to start.
And to say that the pros don't do it is also foolish. |
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| agentdansmith |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
For me it opened up many mixing possibilities I had previously overlooked. |
I agree with you there, when I first keyed all my tracks, I started to mix tunes together that I would never of thought of doing before (such as mixing breaks into techno or electronica into trance) and was very pleased with some of the results.
I think that this is something that you can only do with keyed tracks. |
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| starboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Next time you have the chance to ask "pro DJ" about harmonic mixing and (apart from probably John00Fleming) give it a go and they will tell you to piss off and they just learn their choons. |
:rolleyes:
im not gonna get into name dropping but i have been very curious in the last couple years as to which dj's/producers pay close attention to keys and harmonics and every sigle one ive asked pretty much told me that its second nature to them, and most have been house guys. |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nemesis44
The myth of perfect pitch. Ok, so it exists but very few people have it although it can be aquired if you practice which will often happen over time if you mix harminically and/or produce music.
The draw back of having 'natural' perfect pitch is that I have found, out of the people I have worked with who have this gift/curse is that they have trouble hearing things like harmonies etc. I know it sounds pretty mad but that's what experience teaches me.
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Wierd. I would figure people like that would be able to hear them better. Do you know why? |
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| Stu Cox |
| quote: | Originally posted by agentdansmith
How do you find the key then Stu? Do you manually find it with a keyboard or do you just go by what sounds right to you?
I only ask as I have been mixing in key for a while now and use Mixmeister to find the keys. But I have been finding that a lot of the time I am mixing tunes together which have keys that should not go together (according to the 'system'), but they sound great. |
I've got a standalone vst synth on my pc I use to hack around till I find the right tonic, then scribble it down.
But yeah, I work with "normal" keys (C maj, Eb minor etc) rather than key codes cos I already know what goes with what. Then I've got a couple of tricks to allow me to harmonically mix more than just the usual tonic (same key), sub-dominant (4th) and dominant (5th) intervals ;) The Camalot system says you can mix any given key with 4 out of the 24 other keys - the way I do it it's nearly 50% of them that'll match haha (it's a bit cheeky and you have to be careful, but it works)... then one more trick to open up the other 50% :) |
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| stefanoc |
harmonic mixing is definetely a good step up. ull be amazed how much better transitions and ur mixes will get once u start mixing harmonically. however u have to be careful not to have 1 hour of one key or else its going to be monotonous and boring. harmonic mixing is just another trick that u should use to improve ur mixing... but u need lot more than just that to be good.
i noticed lots of people lose focus of the energy flow of their set just because they want to mix harmonically. dont fall in that trap. |
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| BOOsTER |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stu Cox
I've got a standalone vst synth on my pc I use to hack around till I find the right tonic, then scribble it down.
But yeah, I work with "normal" keys (C maj, Eb minor etc) rather than key codes cos I already know what goes with what. Then I've got a couple of tricks to allow me to harmonically mix more than just the usual tonic (same key), sub-dominant (4th) and dominant (5th) intervals ;) The Camalot system says you can mix any given key with 4 out of the 24 other keys - the way I do it it's nearly 50% of them that'll match haha (it's a bit cheeky and you have to be careful, but it works)... then one more trick to open up the other 50% :) |
you pitch it up +/- 1 semitone....nah?
if you do this in ableton with complex algorithm it won't be much noticeable that you pitched the track up and it will open a few more...
errrm still if I count right...
original pitch = 4 possibilities
- 1 = another 4
+ 1 = another 4
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that is 12 of 24
how the heck can you open up the other 50%?
EDIT: Just spend a few minutes thinking....the other 50% are their relative major/minor scales, right? |
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| Nemesis44 |
I also find using Master pitch on CDJs can be a useful tool for providing more options.
But there are plenty of other tricks you can use.
Cheers
Nem |
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