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#756! (pg. 6)
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| Shamez214 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Member of X
1999 All-Century Team
The Team
Pitchers
* Nolan Ryan (992,040 votes)
* Sandy Koufax (970,434)
* Cy Young (867,523)
* Roger Clemens (601,244)
* Bob Gibson (582,031)
* Walter Johnson (479,279)
* Warren Spahn* (337,215)
* Christy Mathewson* (249,747)
* Lefty Grove* (142,169)
Catchers
* Johnny Bench (1,010,403)
* Yogi Berra (704,208)
First Basemen
* Lou Gehrig (1,207,992)
* Mark McGwire (517,181)
Second Basemen
* Jackie Robinson (788,116)
* Rogers Hornsby (630,761)
Third Basemen
* Mike Schmidt (855,654)
* Brooks Robinson (761,700)
Shortstops
* Cal Ripken, Jr. (669,033)
* Ernie Banks (598,168)
* Honus Wagner* (526,740)
Outfielders
* Babe Ruth (1,158,044)
* Hank Aaron (1,156,782)
* Ted Williams (1,125,583)
* Willie Mays (1,115,896)
* Joe DiMaggio (1,054,423)
* Mickey Mantle (988,168)
* Ty Cobb (777,056)
* Ken Griffey, Jr. (645,389)
* Pete Rose (629,742)
* Stan Musial* (571,279)
Oops.............Where's Barry Bonds? 1999 what? The year he was beginning to juice? Nuff said. Game set match. |
Brian, I know you can be objective. There NO reason Bonds should've been left off that list. I know how you feel about the steroids , but honestly... Bonds was and is one of the best players ever. And here's why I said Bonds > Mays:
If you keep all of Bonds years, including the steroids years, it's definitely true. But I'm not. I'm stopping after 1998, because 1999 is the year Bonds came back looking like Ronnie Coleman.
Mays hit for higher averages. But Bonds wasn't FAR behind in that.
Bonds had 411 HRs by then, and he was 33. Mays had 453 by the time he was 33, so it's not far fetched to say Bonds would've had 600 home runs in his career, without steroids.
Only counting seasons with 300 ABs or more, Bonds had 9 seasons with an OBP above .400. Mays had 5 seasons.
Mays won 12 gold gloves, Bonds won 8.
Mays won 2 MVPs, Bonds won 3.
Mays had an OPS above 1.000 5 times. Bonds did it 7 times.
Mays stole 338 bases. Bonds had 445.
And, remember, this is all with Bonds' career ending after 1998. Couting stats would've gone up and there really wasn't much decline in Bonds' stats leading up to the 1999 season, so it's within reason that he could've led the league in OBP, OPS, and what not many more times. |
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| inconspicuous |
no, it's not with his career ending after '98. before '99, he was 35 years old and didn't yet have 411 home runs. It's very debatable whether he would have gotten to 600 without steroids.
and most players don't decline much by that point. They may drop off a bit in those past few years, but until then, they're just gaining experience with bodies still in decent shape. after 35, though, they start to fall off. As I mentioned earlier, he had what was nearly a career-ending injury in 2002, even WITH steroids to help him get back. |
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| Member of X |
| The thing that is hard when you're comparing era's is that nowadays, there is more teams (watering down pitchers), tighter balls, smaller ballparks, and more. However, nowadays there is also more specialty relief pitching (guys throwing 101 mph in the 7th inning vs. a tired starter) and perhaps more nastier selection of pitches (splitter for example). So anytime we compare, one can never be sure of how great the differences would have been. Mays could have hit 800 Homers on the juice too. I'll never know. |
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| King Ecnal |
| quote: | Originally posted by inconspicuous
he's no hank aaron 'cuz hank aaron is the most overrated professional athlete ever. |
when I said "he's no Hank Aaron" I meant personality wise, Aaron has class... he's not an like Mays/Bonds... |
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| inconspicuous |
| quote: | Originally posted by King Ecnal
when I said "he's no Hank Aaron" I meant personality wise, Aaron has class... he's not an like Mays/Bonds... |
I'll give you that. He also had real death threats & prejudice thrown at him, while Barry Bonds doesn't, but makes just as big of a deal out of it.
does anybody have that Bonds quote about getting Ruth's "white ass out of the history books," or something to that effect? I wish I still did... |
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| LeopoldStotch |
i am sure it has been mentioned before, but i think the Baseball Committee should set a standard change. There was "the dead ball" era, and now we should call this "the juiced" era. average numbers from 1999 are through the roof.
back in 2000, i did a statistical analysis of the change in baseball in my probability and statistics class, from the 1990s compared to the past, covering everything from batting to pitching. damn it i wished i saved it. i somehow lost it somewhere, thinking it wasn't really important. i had some really good data. |
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| inconspicuous |
or they could just raise the mound again. problem solved. that's been long overdue, anyway.
the problem is, Selig gave more thought to putting spiderman logos on the bases than he ever has to anything that would lower home run totals. |
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| LeopoldStotch |
| quote: | Originally posted by inconspicuous
or they could just raise the mound again. problem solved. that's been long overdue, anyway. |
that too. then again, wasn't the reason why they lowered the mound, because the baseball panel was afraid baseball was getting too boring, and needed to speed up the games, and increase the number of runs scored?
nvm. this was before edit. :rolleyes: |
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| inconspicuous |
| quote: | Originally posted by LeopoldStotch
that too. then again, wasn't the reason why they lowered the mound, because the baseball panel was afraid baseball was getting too boring, and needed to speed up the games, and increase the number of runs scored? |
yep. see edit |
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| LeopoldStotch |
| quote: | Originally posted by inconspicuous
yep. see edit |
:o :D |
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| inconspicuous |
| I just remembered that Spiderman nonsense and now I hate Selig even more...again. One of the dumbest things I've ever heard. |
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| inconspicuous |
| so how long before the winner of the home run derby earns aluminum bat privileges for his team in the playoffs? |
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