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bad grammar (pg. 11)
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| Beat Blog |
| quote: | Originally posted by Omega_M
Nobody communicates fluently in day to day life taking care of the grammar and all. The ability to write or speak flawlessly is largely an academic skill. You develop the ability only if you study the language rigorously as a subject. |
What, so you didn't learn in grade 3 that "you're" is the incorrect way to describe a person's possession?
I'm talking about basic grammar and punctuation here, not expecting people to know the Latin root for the word etc.
its/it's
you're/your
people's/peoples'
there/their/they're
Not hard.
We all make occasional mistakes, and that's fine, but people consistently do this , even "highly educated" people. It's a joke. |
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| chimera66 |
I think people get too used to writing things informally/incorrectly and begin writing badly everywhere else. After reading first drafts, I volunteered to edit my group's entire research paper last semester. Seriously, people a couple weeks away from a masters degree from NYU some of which have undergraduate degrees from top schools (ie USC) and their writing was full of simple mistakes...if you ask me that's ridiculous and unacceptable.
| quote: | Originally posted by inconspicuous
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fixed :toothless |
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| Project-K |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beat Blog
What, so you didn't learn in grade 3 that "you're" is the incorrect way to describe a person's possession?
I'm talking about basic grammar and punctuation here, not expecting people to know the Latin root for the word etc.
its/it's
you're/your
people's/peoples'
there/their/they're
Not hard.
We all make occasional mistakes, and that's fine, but people consistently do this , even "highly educated" people. It's a joke. |
That's pretty much the first thing they teach you when you take english as a second language. |
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| chach |
| lol wtf how did this thread get so big? |
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| Beat Blog |
I propose that we take away contractions from those who do not have the necessary mental power to use them, just like we take away cars from bad drivers.
They would get stuck typing "you are" all day instead of "you're". The extra keystroke required would eventually wear them down after many years, and end in a spectacular case of carpal tunnel syndrome! MUHAHAHAHAHA!!! |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beat Blog
Ha!
What a load of bollocks.
If I can write and speak English correctly, anyone else who has also learnt the language from birth should be able to also. It's not hard.
Many non-native English speakers such as the Dutch, ze Germans etc write beautiful English on the internet (it amazes me consistently actually), in some ways superior to even a good native speaking English writer. If they can, why shouldn't someone who has been doing it since birth be able to? |
- First of all, speaking and writing are completely different phenomena. A child naturally learns to speak as long as there's some stimulus (i.e. you won't speak if there's no one talking around you). Our brain is prepared to recognise "vocal symbols" as a form of communication. All healthy humans living in society speak.
That's not what happens with writing. Not all languages are written, and no one spontaneously begins to write. That's why you can be illiterate even if your language can be written (actually, all languages can be written in some way, but that's not the point).
- Not all of us have access to good education. If you never had the chance to learn how punctuation marks are used, you probably won't acquire this ability by osmosis. You can learn how to say a question by imitating the way others ask questions to you, but how are you supposed to do that in writing, specially in a language (such as English) where the syntax can make it perfectly clear that a sentence is a question by just changing the word order?
And that's why foreigners tend to write in English better than the natives themselves: most foreigners that do speak English often had the chance to go to good schools, otherwise they wouldn't have learnt a foreign language. Also, foreign languages don't mean bugger all to us at first, and we often need to resort to written language in order to learn the spoken variety. I certainly read in English a lot more than I do in Portuguese, and TA has helped me a lot. Finally, we're used to speaking a different language in which homophones might not sound alike: that's why I hardly ever mix up words like "accept" and "except" - they're completely different in Portuguese. That's why "the Dutch and ze German" are less prone to make spelling mistakes. And, on top of that, their mistakes are often different from the kind of mistakes native speakers do, so they're often less stigmatised.
- Writing in English is a bit more difficult than it should be. Thanks to the Great Vowel Shift, spelling words in English has become a bit of a challenge ("break" and "brake" rhyme, whereas "though" and "through" don't), and the spelling reforms in the Renaissance didn't help at all (they're the ones to blame for many silent letters, such as the "s" in "island" and the "b" in "debt"). And, unfortunately, English is now spread across all continents and comes in many different flavours. Most Americans could easily spell "caught" and "cot" the same way, for example, but Australians would probably find that confusing.
Therefore, don't take your good writing skills for granted.
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beat Blog
What, so you didn't learn in grade 3 that "you're" is the incorrect way to describe a person's possession? |
The fact that you actually had to learn this is a sign that writing is not that easy.
When was the last time someone told you to raise your intonation if you want to ask a question?
(That's how you ask questions in Australian English, right? I know the Irish don't always do that, and I don't know about any Irish influence in Australian prosody) |
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| AndreaCKY772 |
i have a habit of laughing at spelling mistakes when read e-mails/ims, etc.
in my head, i correct certain grammar errors when i read articles... for example if i see "the students dropped they're pencil" or "you're waisting your time"...roflmao
i'm a nerd, i know :rolleyes: |
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| chach |
| lolz im drunk. f this thread till tomorrow. |
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| Beat Blog |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
- First of all, speaking and writing are completely different phenomena. A child naturally learns to speak as long as there's some stimulus (i.e. you won't speak if there's no one talking around you). Our brain is prepared to recognise "vocal symbols" as a form of communication. All healthy humans living in society speak.
That's not what happens with writing. Not all languages are written, and no one spontaneously begins to write. That's why you can be illiterate even if your language can be written (actually, all languages can be written in some way, but that's not the point).
- Not all of us have access to good education. If you never had the chance to learn how punctuation marks are used, you probably won't acquire this ability by osmosis. You can learn how to say a question by imitating the way others ask questions to you, but how are you supposed to do that in writing, specially in a language (such as English) where the syntax can make it perfectly clear that a sentence is a question by just changing the word order?
And that's why foreigners tend to write in English better than the natives themselves: most foreigners that do speak English often had the chance to go to good schools, otherwise they wouldn't have learnt a foreign language. Also, foreign languages don't mean bugger all to us at first, and we often need to resort to written language in order to learn the spoken variety. I certainly read in English a lot more than I do in Portuguese, and TA has helped me a lot. Finally, we're used to speaking a different language in which homophones might not sound alike: that's why I hardly ever mix up words like "accept" and "except" - they're completely different in Portuguese. That's why "the Dutch and ze German" are less prone to make spelling mistakes. And, on top of that, their mistakes are often different from the kind of mistakes native speakers do, so they're often less stigmatised.
- Writing in English is a bit more difficult than it should be. Thanks to the Great Vowel Shift, spelling words in English has become a bit of a challenge ("break" and "brake" rhyme, whereas "though" and "through" don't), and the spelling reforms in the Renaissance didn't help at all (they're the ones to blame for many silent letters, such as the "s" in "island" and the "b" in "debt"). And, unfortunately, English is now spread across all continents and comes in many different flavours. Most Americans could easily spell "caught" and "cot" the same way, for example, but Australians would probably find that confusing.
Therefore, don't take your good writing skills for granted.
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All valid points which I agree with.
However, I'm not talking about kids living in slums with no education.
I'm talking about well-educated people with privileged upbringings good jobs, who still speak and write like absolute wits.
Plus, I definitely agree with your "osmosis" idea of speaking vs writing, however people in English speaking countries ARE exposed to written English, all day.
On advertisements, on menu's [sic], on television. Everywhere.
There is no excuse for making basic spelling/grammar mistakes consistently, unless you are prepared to admit that you are, in fact, retarded.
By the way, this isn't limited to writing. You hear people say incorrect things all the time, such as "vica versa", "I been there", "I done that", "I was more colder than I've ever been", "I felt asleep", "I rung the police", etc etc. |
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| chimera66 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beat Blog
However, I'm not talking about kids living in slums with no education.
I'm talking about well-educated people with privileged upbringings good jobs, who still speak and write like absolute wits.
There is no excuse for making basic spelling/grammar mistakes consistently, unless you are prepared to admit that you are, in fact, retarded. |
agreed! |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beat Blog
There is no excuse for making basic spelling/grammar mistakes consistently, unless you are prepared to admit that you are, in fact, retarded. |
Yes, there are many "excuses".
Before I continue, though, I must ask you something. Have you ever read anything about this subject, or are you just saying all this out of prejudice?
| quote: | Originally posted by Beat Blog
Just another example of America changing the rules of the English language to suit themselves. :rolleyes:
It's ironic, some of you Americans in this thread are sticklers for spelling and/or grammar, yet the butcherig of the English language is completely and utterly ingrained in your whole country!
There's probably a whole lot of words you spell incorrectly (anywhere but America anyway) that you don't even know about... |
Just like any other social product, there's a reason for that... |
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