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It's a Clash of Ideas. (pg. 4)
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| hardcore trancer |
Here is a good link I found regarding France influence on Khomaini and their support for him.Infact they actually granted him political asylum.Surprise Surprise even tho he pubilically talked about the holy war on Israel while living there
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1857
and a little history of Khomeini
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/...ah_khomeini.php
and finally a good article about how the U.S ended up backstabbing the Shah during the revolution and letting him getting overthrown by the Ayatollah.
http://homepage.mac.com/kaaawa/iblo...4615/index.html
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The Iranian Shah meeting with Alfred Atherton, William Sullivan, Cyrus
Vance, President Carter, and Zbigniew Brzezinski, 1977
Facing a revolution, the Shah of Iran sought help from the United States.
Iran occupied a strategic place in U.S. foreign policy toward the Middle
East, acting as an island of stability, and a buffer against Soviet
penetration into the region. He was pro-American, but domestically
oppressive. The U.S. ambassador to Iran, William H. Sullivan, recalls that
the U.S. national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski "repeatedly assured
Pahlavi that the U.S. backed him fully," however these reassurances would
not amount to substantive action on the part of the United States. On
November 4th, 1978, Brzezinski called the Shah to tell him that the United
States would "back him to the hilt." At the same time, certain high-level
officials in the State Department decided that the Shah had to go,
regardless of who replaced him. Brzezinski, and Energy Secretary James
Schlesinger (former Secretary of Defense under Ford), continued to advocate
that the U.S. support the Shah militarily. Even in the final days of the
revolution, when the Shah was considered doomed no matter what the outcome
of the revolution came to be, Brzezinski still advocated a U.S. invasion to
stabilize Iran. President Carter could not decide how to appropriately use
force, opposed a U.S. coup, ordered the Constellation aircraft carrier to
the Indian Ocean, but soon countermanded his order. A deal was worked out
with the Iranian generals to shift support to a moderate government, but
this plan fell apart when Khomeini and his followers swept the country,
taking power 12 February 1979.
Failed Nojeh Coup
In July 1980, the U.S. national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski met
Jordan's King Hussein in Amman to discuss detailed plans for Saddam Hussein
to sponsor a coup in Iran against Khomeini. King Hussein was Saddam's
closest confidant in the Arab world, and served as an intermediary during
the planning. The Iraqi invasion of Iran would be launched under the pretext
of a call for aid from Iranian loyalist officers plotting their own uprising
on July 9, 1980 (codenamed Nojeh, after Shahrokhi/Nojeh air base in
Hamedan). The Iranian officers were organized by Shapour Bakhtiar, who had
fled to France when Khomeini seized power, but was operating from Baghdad
and Sulimaniyah at the time of Brzezinski's meeting with Hussein. However,
Khomeini learned of the Nojeh Coup plan from Soviet agents in
France,Pakistan, and Latin America. Shortly after Brzezinski's meeting with
Hussein, the President of Iran, Abolhassan Bani-Sadr quietly rounded up six
hundred officers and executed many of them, putting an effective end to the
Nojeh Coup [2]. Saddam would decide to invade without the Iranian officer's
assistance, beginning the Iran-Iraq war on 22 September 1980.
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
remember Bin Laden? how did he get his power? who supported him? and why is he the great enemy of the America now? |
oh, so supporting the mujahadeen (sp?) against unwarranted soviet aggression and invasion is somehow a bad thing??
justify that line of argument to me :rolleyes: |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| edit: it is this kind of selective analysis or emphasis that clearly shows your bias. i think it clouds your judgement {when the US is involved) and undermines what is otherwise justified positions. |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
edit: it is this kind of selective analysis or emphasis that clearly shows your bias. i think it clouds your judgement {when the US is involved) and undermines what is otherwise justified positions. |
who hardcore?? no way does he approach an argument with anti-american bias... no way!! ;) |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
you stupid Yank.here let me give you something a litle bit more easier for your filled of brain of yours,remember Bin Laden?how did he get his power?who supported him? and why is he the great enemy of the America now? |
:rolleyes: Bin Laden came to power on his own.
HE travelled to Afghanistan from his home in Saudi Arabia.
He fought the Russians.
HE led the Mujahadeen.
WITH THE WEST'S AND PAKISTAN'S HELP with weapons, money and intel the Mujahadeen defeated the Russians.
the CIA never met Bin Laden in Afghanistan.
HE organized Al Queera in Afghanistan after the success of the Mujahadeen with the idea that if they were that successful against the Russians then he could organize a new Islamic order in what HE saw as a corrupt, fat, and western influenced Middle East.
HE used our help in Afghanistan despite his firm belief that the West was a illegitamate corrupt influence on his homeland and his religion. AND HE HAS BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL IN THAT ENDEAVOR.
WHAT YOU CONTINUE TO BELIEVE IS A CONVIENIENT INTERNET FALACY THAT IGNORES COMMON SENSE AND FACTS.
| quote: | | I never said the ayatollah was the west's symbol of freedom |
sure:rolleyes:
| quote: | | they introduced Khomaini to the people and the people wanted freedom and freedom of speach and wanted to express their religious beliefs and khomaini promised the people just that. |
what?
| quote: | | where da do you get these so called facts from ? I said he came to Iran from France yes he was LIVING IN FRANCE. |
sure:rolleyes:
| quote: | | Ayatollah khomaini came back to Iran from exile in France. |
what?
| quote: | | I dont know the they are feeding you rednecks but it is working good. |
i'm Asian, so forget EVER, that you are smarter than me. EVAH! |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Here is a good link I found regarding France influence on Khomaini and their support for him.Infact they actually granted him political asylum.Surprise Surprise even tho he pubilically talked about the holy war on Israel while living there
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1857
and a little history of Khomeini
and finally a good article about how the U.S ended up backstabbing the Shah during the revolution and letting him getting overthrown by the Ayatollah. |
look Hardcore, it is no secret that the Carter administration was no real friend of Israel. Carter favored the Palestinian cause. he still does. he was no fan of the Shah of Iran either. but, back then Iran was a blip on the American foriegn policy radar screen.
Carter was, at best, complacent to the situation happening Iran. Carter probably didn't understand the scope of what was about to happen in Iran. and for the most part, Reagan didn't really understand either. Reagan had bigger problems on his plate when he took office and he underestimated the situation too.
the Iranian Revolution was going to happen regardless of what we did to not help the Shah. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
you stupid Yank.here let me give you something a litle bit more easier for your filled of brain of yours,remember Bin Laden?how did he get his power?who supported him? and why is he the great enemy of the America now?
I never said the ayatollah was the west symbol of freedom,I said they used him to get rid of shah.
where da do you get these so called facts from ? I said he came to Iran from France yes he was LIVING IN FRANCE.Clearly he wasnt the enemy back in those days and he had the support from the west.
Please stay the hell away from politcs and just stay in the army.
I dont know the they are feeding you rednecks but it is working good. |
He was in France a meer 4 months on a traveler's visa. Your facts are completly not accurate. Khomeani spent most of his exile in Najaf Iraq. Additionally, the takeover of the American embassy was very much triggered by the US allowing the Shah to come to the United States for treatment of cancer. This enraged the Iranian people who wanted to try the shah in court.
I find it repulsive that you provide blog posting as evidence for your arguments, which are in themselves not accurate. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
:rolleyes: Bin Laden came to power on his own.
HE travelled to Afghanistan from his home in Saudi Arabia.
He fought the Russians.
HE led the Mujahadeen.
WITH THE WEST'S AND PAKISTAN'S HELP with weapons, money and intel the Mujahadeen defeated the Russians.
the CIA never met Bin Laden in Afghanistan.
HE organized Al Queera in Afghanistan after the success of the Mujahadeen with the idea that if they were that successful against the Russians then he could organize a new Islamic order in what HE saw as a corrupt, fat, and western influenced Middle East.
HE used our help in Afghanistan despite his firm belief that the West was a illegitamate corrupt influence on his homeland and his religion. AND HE HAS BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL IN THAT ENDEAVOR.
WHAT YOU CONTINUE TO BELIEVE IS A CONVIENIENT INTERNET FALACY THAT IGNORES COMMON SENSE AND FACTS. |
precisely. the people that think otherwise are those that hadn't heard of him before 2001 :rolleyes: |
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| DJ Shibby |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
precisely. the people that think otherwise are those that hadn't heard of him before 2001 :rolleyes: |
TAR AND FEATHER.. yea
ps: are you seriously "rolleyes"ing when you haven't heard of the ****** before 2001 either?
What. a. hypocrite. holy. SHIEEEEEET. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Shibby
TAR AND FEATHER.. yea
ps: are you seriously "rolleyes"ing when you haven't heard of the ****** before 2001 either?
What. a. hypocrite. holy. SHIEEEEEET. |
of course i had you fool. the late night football show turned off and CNN coverage interrupted. i looked at the towers in flames. i heard that two planes had hit them. i said "my money is on bin laden". i had already finished my terrorism hons course.
not sure why you enjoy parading your ignorance and stupid assumptions?? |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
oh, so supporting the mujahadeen (sp?) against unwarranted soviet aggression and invasion is somehow a bad thing??
justify that line of argument to me :rolleyes: |
why is it that everytime U.S supports an individual or a regime for their own benefits it ends up back firing at them later on?
You telling me that Bin Laden was a loving peaceful guy back in those days?:rolleyes: |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
who hardcore?? no way does he approach an argument with anti-american bias... no way!! ;) |
Right Iam just cool like that dont you know?:rolleyes: |
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