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Muslims wanting to convert whole of Britain to Islam? (pg. 9)
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
You're inventing your own argument to argue against. It's called a straw man. I was responding to someone who claimed Islamist ideology promotes the extermination of non-Muslims. The very fact that the notion of "dhimmi" exists at all in Islamist ideology proves my point. Please try to pay more attention to what people actually say, rather than inventing them in your mind, then we won't have this confusion will we? |
Don't fake yourself out now...
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Their aim is to implement a political ideology which, counter to your belief, enshrines the rights of Christians and Jews within that society (albeit with less rights than Muslims)
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You suggested this and I said yes, their called Dhimmis.
How is this a straw man?
In fact, if you understand what Dhimmis are, I was actually agreeing with you. :rolleyes: |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Don't fake yourself out now...
You suggested this and I said yes, their called Dhimmis.
How is this a straw man?
In fact, if you understand what Dhimmis are, I was actually agreeing with you. :rolleyes: |
Pay attention, please...
The Arbiter: "Terroist's are seeking political gain and killing all who do not comply with their religion."
Me: "That's just simply not true. You're suggesting their end game is to kill non-Muslims - rubbish. Their aim is to implement a political ideology which, counter to your belief, enshrines the rights of Christians and Jews within that society (albeit with less rights than Muslims)"
You: "Yes...they're called, "Dhimmis"... :mad:"
Me: "And Christians call others "heathens" and Jews call others "gentiles" What's your point?"
You: "That example isn't even close."
Me: "It's irrelevant as it doesn't take anything away from my point"
The point in question being my first comment in relation to someone saying Islamists want to kill non-Muslims.
Now do you understand? |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Pay attention, please...
The Arbiter: "Terroist's are seeking political gain and killing all who do not comply with their religion."
Me: "That's just simply not true. You're suggesting their end game is to kill non-Muslims - rubbish. Their aim is to implement a political ideology which, counter to your belief, enshrines the rights of Christians and Jews within that society (albeit with less rights than Muslims)"
You: "Yes...they're called, "Dhimmis"... :mad:"
Me: "And Christians call others "heathens" and Jews call others "gentiles" What's your point?"
You: "That example isn't even close."
Me: "It's irrelevant as it doesn't take anything away from my point"
The point in question being my first comment in relation to someone saying Islamists want to kill non-Muslims.
Now do you understand? |
Then why answer me regarding Christians and Jews AND ask me what my point was?? :rolleyes:
Why are you so baffled when people answer you all the time?
Not my problem you can't keep simple conversations straight.
I have an idea, if you don't want to discuss, DON'T QUOTE THEM. :whip: |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Then why answer me regarding Christians and Jews AND ask me what my point was?? :rolleyes:
Why are you so baffled when people answer you all the time?
Not my problem you can't keep simple conversations straight.
I have an idea, if you don't want to discuss, DON'T QUOTE THEM. :whip: |
I asked what your point was because it didn't appear to be apparent.
And my references to how Christians and Jews regard others was in response to your ":mad:" |
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| The Arbiter |
| I was argueing against your post claiming terroists were trying to impliment a poltical ideology that includes all religion's in equality. However, I really can't be arsed for a religous debate of this nature. Agree to dis-agree. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by The Arbiter
I was argueing against your post claiming terroists were trying to impliment a poltical ideology that includes all religion's in equality. |
How on Earth did you come to that conclusion from this: "Their aim is to implement a political ideology which, counter to your belief, enshrines the rights of Christians and Jews within that society (albeit with less rights than Muslims)"
:conf:
| quote: | | However, I really can't be arsed for a religous debate of this nature. Agree to dis-agree. |
No, what you can't be arsed to do is find out anything about the Political Islam ideology. You know nothing whatsoever about these types of groups, or their aims. FYI:
All political ideologies aim to improve society for the people that live their. Political Islam is no different. Political ideologies tend to be based on a political or economical theory that once implemented, they hope will improve society. Political Islam is based on the implementation of Sharia Law (religious law) which is no different from a political theory when used to govern people's lives (it also contains economic theories which are probably similar to socielism). Ideologies are usually born out of opposition to a current unpopular political system. In Political Islam's case, as in most political ideologies, it was born out of the desire to replace the totalitarianism of the Arab states (esp Egypt) with something better That totalitarianism (pan-Arab Nationalism) was in turn born out of the desire to replace colonialism with something better, socialism, but they failed and the people have now turned to the next ideology that promises to improve society - Political Islam.
The aim of Political Islam is to overthrow the dictatorships of the Middle East and replace them with their own political ideology. Part of that ideology is a rejection of Western cultural influences from those Middle Eastern countries (something Christian conservatives in America and elsewhere would also like to reject from their country). The rejection of Western cultural influences from their country leads people to believe this is the reason they attack us - because they hate our way of life. The truth is that they attack us because we support the regimes that prevent their ideology from being implemented. They see Western meddling in the Middle East as being instrumental to the plight of the people of that region, so we become a target just like the Middle Eastern governments.
However, the factions of Political Islam that attack the West and recruit British Muslims are a very small and very extreme end of the spectrum. Just like all political ideologies there is a spectrum from extreme to moderate (eg in socialism you can go right from the extreme of communism to the extremely moderate Labour Party). Al-Qaida represents the most extreme form of Political Islam, yet their brand of Islamism is how everyone judges ALL Islamist groups. The more localised groups, operating at national rather than international level (including the Shiite insurgents in Iraq) have all rejected al-Qaida's methods and strict interpretation of Islam.
Al-Qaida is not representative of the wider Political Islam movement, but obviously Al-Qaida is the organisation that gets all the headlines. This in turn leads to a distorted view about what Political Islam is, because everyone (like you) equates Political Islam to Al-Qaida, when they are just an small, extreme example. Most Political Islam groups simply want to implement a political ideology into a specific region, no different than any other political ideologies... |
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| The Arbiter |
| Stop trying to continue a dead argument man. I know that if I respond to this it will just go circular and flammatory again. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by The Arbiter
Stop trying to continue a dead argument man. I know that if I respond to this it will just go circular and flammatory again. |
But if you actually knew what you were talking about we wouldn't have this problem would we?
You never know, you may even find it interesting to find out a little more about something you obviously have strong feeling about... |
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| The Arbiter |
| quote: | | But if you actually knew what you were talking about we wouldn't have this problem would we? |
Nice try. I won't be provoked, all Im going to say is I know what Im talking about and I have a strong reply, choosing not to exercise it. You? You can believe whatever you want to believe but whatever it is, it won't be of any consequence to me.
NOTE: This was the last reply on this subject. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by The Arbiter
Nice try. I won't be provoked, all Im going to say is I know what Im talking about and I have a strong reply, choosing not to exercise it. You? You can believe whatever you want to believe but whatever it is, it won't be of any consequence to me.
NOTE: This was the last reply on this subject. |
No it's not! That was the last reply on a completely unrelated topic to what the main subject of this thread is about (but you don't appear to know what you're talking about in either topic, as shown by your refusal to make any comments to back up your claims. Hint: Simply saying "I know what I'm talking about" won't convince many people here...) |
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| Purple |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
:whip: |
First this " :mad: " and now this ":whip: " ?
You better keep your anger under control or I will get you banned from this place. Understand? |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
I asked what your point was because it didn't appear to be apparent.
And my references to how Christians and Jews regard others was in response to your ":mad:" |
Let's just chalk this up to 'mis-communication' then :p
Sometimes the internet sux :disbelief |
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