|
We need to support the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt
|
View this Thread in Original format
| George Smiley |
Controvertial, and I'm guessing this thread could be never ending, but I believe that supporting the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt could be the greatest step forward the West could make in dealing with the current problem it faces with Islamic extremism. The West claims that the clash between itself and Islamic extremism is an ideological clash, similar to the ideological battle of the Cold War between democracy and totalitarianism. Certainly neoconservatives view this clash in exactly the same light, however, they contradict themselves when they oppose democracy should the results not return the leaders they desire. In this case, such as in Palestine or Lebanon, the West shows they are not concerned with democracy at all.
The Egyptian regime is a great ally of America and Israel, but it is an oppressive dictatorship that is completely opposed to democracy. This opposition to democracy is fully supported by the West who fear letting the people decide who rules them will result in Islamists rising to power - which is exactly what WILL happen should the Egyptians deicde at the ballot box...but is this outcome necessarily a bad thing?
| quote: | Do not undermine moderate Islamists: The case of Muslim Brotherhood leader, Khayrat El-Shater
By Ibrahim El Houdaiby, Conflicts Forum, September 13, 2007
Egyptian newspapers report that sources close to the ruling elite have asserted that Muslim Brotherhood Deputy Chairman, Khayrat El Shater, currently standing before a military tribunal, will be sentenced to five years in prison. The main reason, according to the same sources, is that El Shater’s popularity has been on the rise since his arrest, and could challenge Gamal Mubarak if they contested in any upcoming presidential elections. This is the same reason why Ayman Nour was imprisoned.
El Shater was previously sentenced to five years in prison by another military tribunal in 1995. Using military tribunals is one of the repressive tools used by Egyptian regime to silence its peaceful yet powerful political opposition. Mohamed Ali Beshr, another defendant standing before a military tribunal, is a Muslim Brotherhood Executive Bureau Member who was sentenced to three years in prison by another military tribunal in 2001. MP Talaat El Sadat, late President Sadat’s nephew, was sentenced to one year in prison by another military tribunal in 2006 and is still serving his sentence.
Needless to say, the trials El Shater and others are now facing are politically motivated. They were transferred to military tribunals after being acquitted by civilian courts which found the money laundering and terrorism charges they are facing “groundless and politically motivated, with no substantial evidence whatsoever.” Moreover, the courts’ verdict praised the detainees as “respectable businessmen, doctors, engineers and professionals who are well-known for their moderation and for working to serve their country.”
El Shater does not often appear on media. Whenever asked about this he has responded by saying that his role is to lay the intellectual and organizational infrastructure of a moderate democratic organization. In his few appearances during the last parliamentary elections, El Shater asserted the Brotherhood’s commitment to democracy, respect of civil freedoms, willingness to work with others for the benefit of the country. He asserted that no single group or movement could lead Egypt to democracy, and that Egypt’s progress requires collective efforts. He stressed that the Brotherhood’s main objective was not to rule, but to participate in developing Egypt and bringing freedom, justice and prosperity to its people.
Of all the Muslim Brotherhood leaders, El Shater is the most tolerant towards the West. He was the one behind the initiative of establishing an English-language website to voice the Muslim Brotherhood’s opinion to the West, and to act as a bridge between Brotherhood members and Western intellectuals and policymakers. He was quoted on the website asserting that the Brotherhood “does not promote an anti-Western agenda,” and that its primary focus is internal reform. He asserted that Islamists do not have any inherent hostility towards the West, and that they are willing to engage in dialogue whenever possible.
This assertion was manifested with El Shater’s keenness to overcome the regime’s siege of the MB by encouraging elected MPs to travel and participate in conferences, talks, seminars and dialogue everywhere.
El Shater is also a moderate leader who has very clear stances against radicalism and violence. During his earlier imprisonment in 1995, he went into extensive dialogue with prisoners belonging to radical and jihadist groups. He succeeded in convincing a large number of their leaders to renounce violence, and adopt more moderate paths of reform. His success was manifested when a group of these leaders issued statements with their revisions, renouncing violence and apologizing for their earlier crimes.
The impact of El Shater’s absence of the Islamist movement will be disastrous. With his extraordinary organizational and intellectual capabilities accompanied by his moderation and openness, El Shater is always able to move the MB towards dialogue. He is always able to attract more people to the Brotherhood’s moderate platform and therefore drag hundreds of young Islamists away from the lines of violence. It is for that specific reason that he is being imprisoned. The Egyptian regime could not tolerate having strong opposition leaders and movements, especially with inextricable economic and social problems facing Egypt, and the ongoing scheme of passing the presidency from the 79-year-old Mubarak to his younger son Gamal.
The extreme injustice taking place in the military tribunals’ sessions where journalists and human rights observers are not allowed access will have a dramatic effect on Islamism, and consequently on peace and security in the region. El Shater’s absence will leave room open for radicals to spread their hateful sentiment. His unjust imprisonment will empower the radicals and validate their arguments. It will undermine the possibilities of peaceful reform under the contemporary Middle Eastern regimes. If they do not exert pressure for his release or see that he is allowed to face a fair trial, Western governments and intellectuals will be in for a long search before finding other viable interlocutors, with the legitimacy, capabilities, and moderation of Khayrat El Shater.
Ibrahim El Houdaiby is a board member of Ikhwan Web, The Muslim Brotherhood (Ikwan) Official English Website.
http://conflictsforum.org/2007/do-n...yrat-el-shater/ |
Political Islam has its roots firmly in the history of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. The sheer scope of having this organisation on the side of the West, and denouncing those Islamists who have resorted to violence would, imo, bring unimaginable benefits to the West's problems with combatting Islamic extremism. Unfortunately, the Egyptian regimes desire to cling onto power, and the backing given to them by the West, is preventing this from happening.
If the West truely want to address the issues faced by Islamic extremism, and they truely are in favour of spreading democracy, imo, they need to support El Shater and help him to power.
Most people have the misguided opinion that all Political Islamic groups are the same as al-Qaida - fundamentally against the West. But that is simply no true. Political Islamists are, imo, no different to the American Christian Right which currently run the country. Altho there are certainly problems with conservative religious groups running countries, if it's good enough for America then surely it should be given a chance in other countries? |
|
|
| Sunsnail |
| Yeah, because history shows us helping groups to power has been a good idea :wtf: |
|
|
| Fir3start3r |
| Tell me you're ing kidding....:wtf: |
|
|
| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sunsnail
Yeah, because history shows us helping groups to power has been a good idea :wtf: |
So you think the Egyptian government should be allowed to continue its oppressive rule of the country, opposing democracy and fanning the flames of violent Jihadism? |
|
|
| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Tell me you're ing kidding....:wtf: |
This is your problem Firestarter - no idea why you have the views you do and even less of an idea how to present them to others... |
|
|
| Fir3start3r |
Maybe you missed the sign hanging over their front door...
"Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."
You want to support this??? :wtf:
While I 'might' agree with you that Khayrat El-Shater is a moderate (I really can't say for sure, there simply isn't enough information at the moment to make any determination) the West simply can't afford to play pacifist and pretend to be buddy-buddy with this very violent group. |
|
|
| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Maybe you missed the sign hanging over their front door...
"Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."
You want to support this??? :wtf:
While I 'might' agree with you that Khayrat El-Shater is a moderate (I really can't say for sure, there simply isn't enough information at the moment to make any determination) the West simply can't afford to play pacifist and pretend to be buddy-buddy with this very violent group. |
But they're violent because of the Egyptian regime, in fact, the entire ideology was formed out of opposition to the Egyptian regime. Of course, there are many violent Jihadi groups in Egypt or elsewhere, but El Shater appears to be reining these factions in and his plans for Egypt seem far removed from your discription of the Muslim Brotherhood.
I also find it strange that you have spent an awful lot of time opposing a supposed dictatorship in Venezuela, yet when it comes to an actual uncontended dictatorship in Egypt, you seem to support it?
So a country where the jury is out over whether or not is a dictatorship is opposed by you, yet an undisputed dictatorship is supported by you... |
|
|
| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
This is your problem Firestarter - no idea why you have the views you do and even less of an idea how to present them to others... |
That a lot of opinion with no facts.
Tell me, what do I know of the Muslim Brotherhood since you can read minds? :rolleyes: |
|
|
| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
That a lot of opinion with no facts.
Tell me, what do I know of the Muslim Brotherhood since you can read minds? :rolleyes: |
You know full well that my comment was made because you made no attempt to answer any of the points in my post or the article, instead chosing a petty insult.
Feel free to tell me what you know about the Muslim Brotherhood and El Shater. I'm also interested to know what changed your mind about dictatorships, because yesterday I could have sworn a poster named Firestarter was rabidly opposing what he saw as dictatorship in Venezuela, but today the same poster is supporting dictatorships. |
|
|
| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
You know full well that my comment was made because you made no attempt to answer any of the points in my post or the article, instead chosing a petty insult.
Feel free to tell me what you know about the Muslim Brotherhood and El Shater. I'm also interested to know what changed your mind about dictatorships, because yesterday I could have sworn a poster named Firestarter was rabidly opposing what he saw as dictatorship in Venezuela, but today the same poster is supporting dictatorships. |
So your solution is to trade a dictorship for a very well known violent jihadist group?
I mean, what could possibly go wrong? |
|
|
| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
So your solution is to trade a dictorship for a very well known violent jihadist group?
I mean, what could possibly go wrong? |
My point is two-fold:
1. Political Islam was created as an opposition to the Egyptian dictatorship, and the Egyptian regime continues to fan the flames of violent Jihadist groups. The fact that America and the West are allied to the Egyptian regime (and others) is one of the main reasons al-Qaida attacked America. An end to the Egyptian oppressive dictatorship and an end to Western support is something that is NECESSARY beyond all reasonable doubt if we are to address the problem of violent Islamic extremism.
2. El Shater, according to the article, is taking the Muslim Brotherhood in completely the opposite direction of how you view the MB. The article suggests he has renounced violence, is convincing previously violent Jihadist groups to also renounce violence and is campaigning for a forward looking, modern democratic Egypt. Your problem seems to be in the authenticity of the article and the group promoting it. Well Conflicts Forum is run by an ex-MI6 man who knows his about the middle east. The group advocate a dialogue with Islamic groups as they see a stark distinction between Islamists like al-Qaida and the more moderate types such as Hamas or Hizballah, whereas people like you, no offence, simply cannot see any further past the fact they happen to be Muslims, and therefore you think they are all the same - out to kill all non-Muslims.
If El Shater is how the article discribes him, and if that is what the people of Egypt want, then I see no negative impact for anyone. Egypt will be a democracy, the main factor encouraging violent exremism will have disappeared and it will send a clear message across the Muslim world that there is an alternative (successful) moderate Islamist ideology to the one practiced by al-Qaida...
Anyway, don't you normally like to say that Islam needs to modernise like Christianity? Yet now you've been made aware of someone that apparently is trying to do just that, you reject it anyway because he's a Muslim?
I get the feeling that you're not giving this idea a chance because of your preconceptions about any group that has the misfortune of being Muslim... |
|
|
| CHRles |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley This opposition to democracy is fully supported by the West who fear letting the people decide who rules them will result in Islamists rising to power - which is exactly what WILL happen should the Egyptians deicde at the ballot box...but is this outcome necessarily a bad thing?
|
Yes, it's a very bad thing.
We need to continue to show NO SUPPORT for groups like the Muslim Brotherhood. |
|
|
|
|
