Originally posted by RJT
I mean any unprovable fundamental presupposition about the way the universe works.
yeah, but what "flows" from an atheistic fundamental presupposition? Essentially- nothing. Atheists arent about to go banning religion or religious expression, or dictate to people what to wear or punish them punitively for supposed blasphemy. The big difference (in this context) being that "the way the universe works" is attacked from a purely evidenciary perspective, and what harm is there in that? Its just good and logical science. Religion certainly hasn’t advanced our understanding of the universe one iota.
RJT
Your misinterpreting my meaning, I'm not attacking atheism itself - I'm attacking the fundamental presupposition posited by Dawkins that we as human beings are capable of answering all questions we may have through scientific and empirical reasoning.
And to be completely honest with you PKC, I'm just going to let you know I'm going to let this one die with you here, because I already know you and I have fundamentally different outlooks on metaphysical issues, and I wouldn't presume to disrespect your position by assuming I could say anything that would change it.
I can deal with difference of opinion on issues like this. :)
pkcRAISTLIN
quote:
Originally posted by RJT
we as human beings are capable of answering all questions we may have through scientific and empirical reasoning.
yes, to be honest, i have a problem with this too.
quote:
Originally posted by RJT
And to be completely honest with you PKC, I'm just going to let you know I'm going to let this one die with you here, because I already know you and I have fundamentally different outlooks on metaphysical issues, and I wouldn't presume to disrespect your position by assuming I could say anything that would change it.
but if you dont play with me i might actually have to do some work! :(
RJT
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
yes, to be honest, i have a problem with this too.
but if you dont play with me i might actually have to do some work! :(
Sorry m8 - been dying to spin, but to be honest I'd really like a chance to sit down with you sometime in person and discuss this . Rare to find someone with such similar yet different views who I can speak with in a reasonable manner.
distant
quote:
Originally posted by RJT
I mean any unprovable fundamental presupposition about the way the universe works.
In that sense, I guess my response would fall under the category of "the latter."
The problem, however, isn't that people believe. The problem is what shapes them and makes them do ridiculous things. Science can never be said to have this effect on people.
What I'm concerned about is the surrender of all reason (as Mr. Hitchens put it). It's detrimental to society at large that we're forced to waste energy on dragging these nutjobs kicking and screaming into a new era of knowledge over superstition.
Akridrot
someone please post the video where Dawkins was stumped and stupefied at a creationist's question about evolution and couldn't answer her for like 30 seconds
that was so lol. he looked like an idiot
pkcRAISTLIN
quote:
Originally posted by RJT
Sorry m8 - been dying to spin, but to be honest I'd really like a chance to sit down with you sometime in person and discuss this . Rare to find someone with such similar yet different views who I can speak with in a reasonable manner.
can you give me some of your motivation? havent bothered to spin in 2+ months...
haha, im only "reasonable" to those with brains ;)
MrJiveBoJingles
quote:
Originally posted by Akridrot
someone please post the video where Dawkins was stumped and stupefied at a creationist's question about evolution and couldn't answer her for like 30 seconds
Is this it?
Omega_M
you will also find videos which claim this is edited.
pkcRAISTLIN
meh, who cares? who expects ANYONE to have all the answers right on the spot? if that's all the creationists have then they're in a load of trouble :stongue:
Lira
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
[W]hat's the point in just being an academic intellectual if you can influence the "real" world too?
That's exactly why I'm asking this question. The more I find myself studying Linguistic Theory and Philosophy and weird stuff, the more I want to "fight for a cause", something practical that I could do with this stuff I study.
quote:
Originally posted by Omega_M
Some like Dawkins get recognition because their professional interests overlap with issues that are controversial and subject to media attention.
Hmm... maybe the other professor don't publish their thoughts for the general public? I wonder how many intellectuals try to put their thoughts in layman's terms.
pkcRAISTLIN
quote:
Originally posted by Lira
That's exactly why I'm asking this question. The more I find myself studying Linguistic Theory and Philosophy and weird stuff, the more I want to "fight for a cause", something practical that I could do with this stuff I study.
my hons dissertation opened with "the philosophers have merely interpreted the world, the point is to change it" -karl marx :)
and i agree. whilst its a great mental exercise, i fail to see the point of higher study and getting published if youre not trying to add to/alter the current zeitgeist and make a difference.
