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I think I'm done with vinyl (my short forray into the hype)
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| emc^2 |
I've been avoiding vinyl for a long time, hearing from avid devotees about how great vinyl is, about it's "warmth", yada yada yada yada.
Well, I decided to go for the hype and here's what I discovered:
1. Vinyl is a pain in the a$$ - from the point of "which stylus" to cleaning the records, to even shopping for records, I see it as a bad investment of time, money and energy
2. Sound of vinyl vs. CD. Long debates have raged on for years and some are clinging to one school of thought, anothers are willing to fight to the death to argue contrary. Bottom line, in my listening experience - CDs kick vinyl's a$$ when it comes to sound quality.
"Bollox!", you say, "vinyl sounds 10x better than CD". Really? Well, after spending $400 on deck, $125 on stylus, and about $700 on records - I have a different opinion on the matter. For craps and giggles, I ordered the same record - one on Vinyl another one on CD. CD came with 4 more tracks than Vinyl (bonus!). I then had a friend and I did a blind test:
I left the room and came in when the beat started, so that I wouldn't be able to hear the LP noise at the start. I also had to leave before the end of the record.
I could tell a difference between CD and Vinyl without much problem. CD sounded crisp, clear, punchy and had more presense than brand new vinyl. Vinyl tended to sound more muddy at lower frequencies and actually felt more muted. (Yes, we did calibrate the decks and cartridge before hand).
3. All the nonsense about proper calibration of stylus, cleaning records, properly handling the records, yada yada yada - PAIN PAIN PAIN.
I can certainly see the true reason why so many swear by vinyl - when you've invested over $10 or more into LP that has maybe 2 or 3 songs, it's hard to admit and say "I'm a moron for spending this kind of cash, so I'll convince others that my choice is right".
Well, I'm not going to argue - there's a certain sentimentality and attachment that comes with vinyl collecting but aside from that - everything about, to me, seems like a placebo effect.
Given a choice between vinyl or CDs now - I'm going CD route, unless I can't find a particular song I like any other way (excluding MP3s).
Interesting discussion on Wendy Carlos' (Walter Carlos ??? ;) ) site, echoing my findings (which, by the way, were done before I stumbled upon the article):
http://www.wendycarlos.com/open7.html
read Early 2007 Open Letter section, some interesting observation from one of the most tallented and unique accomplished musicians and professionals of our time (all the freaky quirkiness aside).
| quote: | To demonstrate that this wasn't an isolated case, another writer begged me to have some of my new remasterings pressed on vinyl. He ended with a familiar comment, that while he knows CDs have become the norm, he much prefers "the warmth of vinyl over digital -- which enhances the sound experience", and that vinyl is actually making a comeback currently. I've also saved my reply to post here below the last one:
Please let me beg you to keep an open mind on this topic. Some original CDs WERE hard and nasty, for many extracurricular reasons. Eventually they became a lot more transparent than any LP (which I used to cut for a living, and know the old roller coaster medium too well). After decades of gradual improvements and refinements to digital recording, the old arguments have become "beliefs without proof", like the folks who claim we never went to the moon, or that Roswell is the site of an alien landing.
Since you do like the warmth factor of older gear, why not buy a good used tube amp/preamp on eBay, play your CDs through that? (It's called class-A harmonic distortion, containing BOTH odd and even harmonics, and can sound lovely and warm, although it's not actually "pure.") I've A/B tested my masters against all the media, and LP and Cassette now are simply inferior, dated, although not without a very honest nostalgia factor (let's hear it for nostalgia!). Until I made the series of double-blind, carefully calibrated tests (several times), I had no grasp of the reality of audio reproduction (personal confession: for several years I hated all the early digital sound I'd heard). Memory and pure subjectivity play tricks on us all the time, and NOT just in audio. We have to guard against reinforcing our current beliefs and biases. That's why the scientific method was invented -- to guard against the natural human ability to see/hear only what we expect to. Would I lie to you about something this important? |
Thought I'd rekindle the flames of dialogue about vinyl vs cd.
discuss :disbelief |
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| Oreoh142 |
| same mate i regret going vinyl also..spend soo much more, i would have rather gotten some CDJ's....but w/e..should have posted this in the vinyl vs CD thread instead |
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| ballmouse |
| It's all subjective anyway |
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| Ghost Raver |
| I like mixing with vinyl alot more than CD's, it just feels better. I don't really care about the difference in sound quality etc. as long as it doesn't make my ears bleed, the only bad thing about them (right now) is the cost. Have lots of problems getting new records right now :( |
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| stan229 |
Theres always digital vinyl solutions.. torq,ssl,traktor
im personally goin to torq from just burnin cds |
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| miamitranceman |
| quote: | Originally posted by stan229
Theres always digital vinyl solutions.. torq,ssl,traktor
im personally goin to torq from just burnin cds |
Yeah, I was gonna suggest this as well. It's the best of both words. You can still use your decks and not have to buy expensive vinyls for every track you want.
Unless money is not a factor, there's really no good reason for going straight vinyl these days if you're just starting off. |
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| stan229 |
| quote: | Originally posted by discobiscuit
torq sux |
i just ordered it :) |
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| Oreoh142 |
| i hate it..at home i have vinyl..at work i use CD's.....so when i wanna use my stuff at work, I have to carry all the crates up and down a bunch of stairs...and yeah..you don;t think vinyls weigh a lot, until you have to carry like 5 crates of them up and down a building |
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| MERiDiAN5i2 |
| quote: |
1. Vinyl is a pain in the a$$ - from the point of "which stylus" to cleaning the records, to even shopping for records, I see it as a bad investment of time, money and energy
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All a matter of preference, really. From my point of view, having started out on vinyl before CD decks were what they are today, I find CDs a pain in the arse. I suppose if I started on CDs I'd think the same way you do :)
| quote: |
CD sounded crisp, clear, punchy and had more presense than brand new vinyl. Vinyl tended to sound more muddy at lower frequencies and actually felt more muted. (Yes, we did calibrate the decks and cartridge before hand).
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Believe it or not, you are absolutely correct, and that's exactly why some people prefer vinyl. The somewhat muted sound and less articulate bass response is better suited to large sound systems at high amplitudes, and provides a "classic" sound that is unique. Technically, CDs do have better response, providing a more accurate rendition, but taste is just that; a preference rather than a technicality.
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All the nonsense about proper calibration of stylus, cleaning records, properly handling the records, yada yada yada - PAIN PAIN PAIN.
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I suppose it is nonsense. Calibration of a turntable takes me almost no time, especially using the ortofon "pen shells" and record cleaning is super easy if you (or some etards) haven't spilled a soda in your record bag. Record handling is no different than CDs... scratch either one, they're toast. Atleast the record is more likely to be atleast partially playable after scratching..
| quote: |
I can certainly see the true reason why so many swear by vinyl - when you've invested over $10 or more into LP that has maybe 2 or 3 songs, it's hard to admit and say "I'm a moron for spending this kind of cash, so I'll convince others that my choice is right".
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I don't see the big difference in media price. 2-3$ a track seems the going rate for uncompressed digital downloads, and that leaves making the media up to me. CD singles cost about the same as LPs... I've got most my new vinyl for 6-8$ each, much of it secondhand for 2-4$ a plate. Heck, I once walked away with 50 good plates for $120.. Of course, you can get the same deals with CDs, too...
Good CD decks aren't exactly cheap, either... 1200's are still less money than equally good CD decks, and are basically sure to last longer.
In the end, it's truly a matter of preference.
IMHO, vinyl has been around a long time and will be sticking around. On the other hand, CDs have a limited lifespan and soon we will see DVD-Audio or some other format take over the digital world. The digital marketplace is fast changing, and will continue to be so. Many of us vinyl diehards are waiting for the next thing to evolve... something that's atleast 24/96, which will take away any last remaining (minor) tinge of digital artifacts, and for it to become popular and mainstream. I think once that happens, providing a more evolved digital platform that stores more than 700mb on a plater at higher bitrates, digital is going to be even more popular. Personally, I can't see investing 1000$+ in CD decks that I will just want to upgrade in the near future when DVD-audio or something similar takes over. |
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| epdarks |
| There is a certain nostalgia w/ wax for lots of people. There are unexplainable factors for buying wax aside from sound quality, etc. At least appreciate it for what it is despite the downsides. We would not be where we are today without wax, some of the best DJs alive still prefer wax. If people want to spin wax... let them. If you claim people were misleading you into buying wax, don't mislead other people to buy CDs. |
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| Alex Barretta |
| I went from full computer setup( ableton ), to CDs and then finally to vinyl. I know for most people its the otherway around but for me djing doesnt feel like djing without a record. I dont care what anyone else uses to mix tracks as long as the crowd and I enjoy the music. |
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