So, is this yet another sign of looming Russian agression? Russia has closed many of its bases abroad, pulled out of most Soviet bloc countries, and closed its Vietnam military base in 2004. So the only military base that Russia has outside of Soviet bloc now is a small base on coast of Mediterranian in Syria. Ironically, this Georgian base closedown was shown as one of main news on Russian state TV - apparently a campaign to demoralize the population, eh? ... or maybe to get real with the times? Why would the allegedly authoritarian Putin television would show its defeat to the imperialists? :conf: ;)
TBILISI (Reuters) - Russia said on Tuesday it had formally ended its military presence in Georgia after more than two centuries, closing its last base in its small neighbor.
Russia's commander of military forces in the Caucasus, Andrei Popov, signed documents handing over to Georgia the territory of its last base at Batumi in the Ajara autonomous republic.
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili, who says he wants to end dominance by former imperial masters in Moscow, reached agreement with Russia in 2005 for the closure of the bases.
Georgia, brought into the Russian Empire at the start of the 19th century, enjoyed a brief period of independence after the Bolshevik revolution but was occupied by Soviet forces in 1921.
Georgia declared independence as the Soviet Union crumbled in 1991 but its relations with Moscow have been stormy, with Russian bases one of the issues that have strained ties.
Saakashvili last week imposed a state of emergency, banning independent media and meetings, saying the measures were needed to prevent a coup and blaming Russia for stirring up trouble.
The president has steered the former Soviet state westwards and says he wants Georgia to join the NATO military alliance.
"Russian military bases stopped functioning on Georgian territory after the signing of these documents," Georgia's first deputy defense minister, Batu Kutelia, said after the handover. "This is a day of major importance for the country."
Lebezniatnikov
My understanding was that this was a long time coming, no?
Omega_M
yeah, looks like the agreement was signed in 2005. Clearly the political landscape was quite different then.
Magnetonium
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
My understanding was that this was a long time coming, no?
The Russian side was only supposed to pull out by a certain date in 2009 that I cant recall. Strangely enough they decided to go ahead in the schedule.
Ipooptoomuch
Putin just recently claimed a huge chunk of land around the North Pole.
Maybe Russia closed the bases in preparation for the land grab?
Yes, its very feasible to place a Russian military base on the year-round frozen ice and ocean (not even land, btw) thousands of miles away from the nearest supply point. Precisely, Russia is pulling out of Georgia to take control of North Pole - which so far has no economic or even political / geopolitical interest ... :rolleyes: /sarcasm
Krypton
The US needs to get its rear end out of the Middle East and stake it's claim in the Arctic Circle. Russia has done so much more to stake out its claim over arctic resources.:eek:
Magnetonium
quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
The US needs to get its rear end out of the Middle East and stake it's claim in the Arctic Circle. Russia has done so much more to stake out its claim over arctic resources.:eek:
Its true, I admit, us pesky Russians have an eye for the Artic. We believe that there are huge natural resources hidden beneath those waters, and rightfully claim a good chunk of it, and we have the technology to back it up. But with the lack of funds and lack of political determination, realistically it will be at least another few years before anyone really decides to put up a plan to control over the North Pole area. Plus what if the "global warming" reverses? There are other more important issues for the countries that have the best technology capable to stake out their claims than this science-fiction plight for imaginary gigantic natural resources buried there, just a gamble and a guess so far ...
Trust me, in the summer, Russians have sent out a politically-flavoured scientific mission, nothing more. More of a political stunt and a bit of reseatch, nothing more so far. More missions will reveal later.
ams.rld
Watch the video...freaking russians are aggressive as hell.
Krypton
quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
Its true, I admit, us pesky Russians have an eye for the Artic. We believe that there are huge natural resources hidden beneath those waters, and rightfully claim a good chunk of it, and we have the technology to back it up. But with the lack of funds and lack of political determination, realistically it will be at least another few years before anyone really decides to put up a plan to control over the North Pole area. Plus what if the "global warming" reverses? There are other more important issues for the countries that have the best technology capable to stake out their claims than this science-fiction plight for imaginary gigantic natural resources buried there, just a gamble and a guess so far ...
Trust me, in the summer, Russians have sent out a politically-flavoured scientific mission, nothing more. More of a political stunt and a bit of reseatch, nothing more so far. More missions will reveal later.
It will involved extensive negociations because it's inevitable some parts are going to be claimed by multiple nations.
Magnetonium
quote:
Originally posted by ams.rld
Watch the video...freaking russians are aggressive as hell.
Georgians arent so innocent either ;-) Bad blood is spilling from both sides now, as recently both Georgians and Russians have seized troops, kicked out diplomats, accused each other of violating air space ... Right now Georgia is using provcations and every excuse in the book to end the Russian peacekeeping mission in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, pretty simple to see actually. Georgia has been increasing massively its defense budget (hmmmmmm ...) and Russian troops are increasingly in the way of Saakashvilli's claims when he got elected that he would reunite Georgia ...
Its very convenient that the world media has exploded this story to make Russia look like the main cause for brutality in the region ...
While here's a story that was virtual unheard in the mass media last year:
Georgia: Extent Of 'Victory' In Kodori Offensive Unclear
August 1, 2006 (RFE/RL) -- Georgian officials have sought to present last week's incursion into the Kodori Gorge as a major territorial gain. But such claims gloss over the Georgian failure to apprehend former Kodori Governor Emzar Kvitsiani, whose defiance of the Georgian authorities served as the catalyst for what Tbilisi claims was simply a police operation.
Speaking on national television on July 28, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili said that Georgia now "directly controls a very important strategic part of the territory of Abkhazia," and will "establish Georgian jurisdiction and constitutional order in the heart" of that breakaway region.
Georgian Defense Minister Irakli Okruashvili said the same day that "practically the whole of the gorge is under the control of the police."
Such claims are, however, an exaggeration, insofar as Georgia has merely extended its control over the upper reaches of the gorge -- formerly a no-man's-land controlled by Kvitsiani's Monadire (Hunter) militia -- as far as the border between Abkhazia and the rest of Georgia.
Kristian Bzhania, a spokesman for Abkhaz President Sergei Bagapsh, derided the Georgian claims, telling regnum.ru that "we have another word for what Saakashvili calls the heart."
Bagapsh himself warned when the Georgian forces first entered Kodori that he would mobilize his army if the Georgian contingent actually advanced onto Abkhaz territory.
Georgian Military Performance Questioned
Saakashvili and Okruashvili praised the conduct of the Kodori operation, which was supervised by Okruashvili and Interior Minister Vano Merabishvili personally as both army and Interior Ministry troops took part.
U.S. military personnel in Georgia described the Georgian troops' performance to one Washington analyst as less than stellar, noting that morale among the Georgian servicemen was not good and that at one point the operation was halted due to "inclement weather conditions."
The Russian newspaper "Vedomosti" on July 28 likewise quoted unnamed "experts" as saying the Georgian military is not yet professional enough to conduct large-scale operations.
Former Kodori Governor Kvitsiani, who managed to evade the advancing Georgian troops and whose current whereabouts are unknown, was particularly scathing. He said in video footage broadcast on July 30 by the independent Georgian television channel Imedi that claims that his fighters were surrounded were "laughable."
Kodori Strategy Questioned
Kvitsiani claimed that the Georgian troops "do not know the area and cannot read maps.... We have a good army in Georgia. They are really good boys...but the commander...is an idiot. He knows nothing about military strategy."
Russian experts have pointed out that even if, as Abkhaz presidential envoy to Gali Raion Ruslan Kishmaria has alleged, Georgia is deploying more troops to the upper reaches of the Kodori Gorge with the aim of advancing into the lower reaches and attacking Sukhum, the Abkhaz capital, such an offensive is fraught with risk.
"Izvestia" on August 1 quoted an unnamed Russian general as saying that "starting a campaign in Kodori in summer would be suicidal." He pointed out that the mountains are covered in foliage, providing the enemy with excellent cover, and that it would be virtually impossible to use armor or heavy artillery. A Russian military analyst similarly noted that at one point the gorge narrows to the point that two platoons of Abkhaz special forces could easily block any further Georgian advance.
Are Intentions Military Or Law Enforcement?
Georgian First Deputy Foreign Minister Valeri Chechelashvili said on July 31, however, that Tbilisi has no intention of using Kodori as a bridgehead to advance further into Abkhazia. And Abkhaz President Bagapsh apparently sees no danger of such an advance at this point.
Bagapsh told volunteers from the North Caucasus on August 1 that there is no need at this juncture to mobilize the entire male population of Abkhazia, Caucasus Press reported, although he added that "there are people within the Georgian government whose ambitions are so high they are incapable of rational decisions."
But Abkhaz Defense Minister Lieutenant General Sultan Sosnaliyev told Interfax on August 1 that Tbilisi is secretly replacing the Interior Ministry troops deployed to Kodori with regular military personnel -- a claim that has not been verified.
Standoff With Russia
The Russian Foreign Ministry released a statement on July 31 demanding the immediate withdrawal of all Georgian forces from Kodori. That statement warned that the Georgian authorities' actions risk fueling tensions and provoking an unanticipated "confrontation."
Meanwhile, Okruashvili responded on July 31 to Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov's demand for international monitoring of the Georgian troops in Kodori by saying Tbilisi would consent only after international military experts have been allowed to inspect the former Russian military base in Gudauta, Abkhazia.
Under an agreement signed in November 1999, Moscow undertook to withdraw its troops and materiel from that base by July 1, 2001, but the Georgian government claims that some Russian personnel are still there. Whether Okruashvili is trying to buy time in order to prepare for a new offensive is as yet unclear.
