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Paris Riots (pg. 2)
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by venomX
It might be slightly cliche, but eastern europeans are white. African immigrants in france are, you guessed it, black. There is still plenty of racism going on around the world, and you can see it in all 'developed' countries where the black population is always somehow worse off than the general white population. It is sad that even though it is obvious something is wrong and the black population of most country are getting shafted with labour intensive jobs, low wages and are stuck living in some of the worse areas in those countries, people don't stop to think that there might still be a bias against them out there.
Watch the film George recommended, if it accurately portrays what happens to black people in France (and I believe it does), I would be amazed if they weren't rioting. |
Most of the homeless people that I've seen in Canada are white. I actually dont recall seeing a black homeless person ... honestly.
I'll watch that movie sometime. Should be an interesting one. Because I am certain that the French system / government is at fault as well - because there's a huge gap between how the immigrants fare in North America and vs. in some European countries. |
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| DJ Shibby |
It's funny to me that we have come to a point in the world where we feel that not only do we no longer need to protest, we should judge protesters as dissenters, even if they're looking out for our own good.
Whoever mastered this aspect of human engineering and made it happen had a lot of time and money; I'm impressed. Though I doubt any science can keep down the human spirit.
You think these poor "injured" police didn't pull some authoritative bull to end up how they did? Well, who knows, I wasn't there... I'm just following patterns, that's all, and I recognize the potential for mistakes even against evidence.
Someone disagrees with the government, and they're "rioters"... then we act surprised when they fight back when the authorities shoot them with rubber bullets and taze them?
Yet none of us seem to stop and think, "Hey, why are these people pushed to the point where they feel they need to do this? Can I relate?" |
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| atbell |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Most of the homeless people that I've seen in Canada are white. I actually dont recall seeing a black homeless person ... honestly.
I'll watch that movie sometime. Should be an interesting one. Because I am certain that the French system / government is at fault as well - because there's a huge gap between how the immigrants fare in North America and vs. in some European countries. |
There are lots of homeless people in Vancouver, mostly white, a handfull of native americans, and the odd asian. But it's not surprising that there aren't any black homeless people in Vancouver ... there aren't many black people at all in that city.
I've heard that a good chunk of the crime in Toronto is immigrant related, or at least the stuff that makes the TV news. A friend of mine is a social worker with some of the impovrished people and she pointed out that many of the getto's are pretty much segregated by country of origin. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by atbell
There are lots of homeless people in Vancouver, mostly white, a handfull of native americans, and the odd asian. But it's not surprising that there aren't any black homeless people in Vancouver ... there aren't many black people at all in that city.
I've heard that a good chunk of the crime in Toronto is immigrant related, or at least the stuff that makes the TV news. A friend of mine is a social worker with some of the impovrished people and she pointed out that many of the getto's are pretty much segregated by country of origin. |
When it comes to crime - look at Toronto, and look at who's doing most of the shootings ;) ... thats all I can say without making any racist-like remarks (I am not a racist). Ask Firestarter if you dont know, he lives there! |
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| venomX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
When it comes to crime - look at Toronto, and look at who's doing most of the shootings ;) ... thats all I can say without making any racist-like remarks (I am not a racist). Ask Firestarter if you dont know, he lives there! |
So what's your point? Man up and spill the beans. I did mention before the fact that all around the world black people are disadvantaged. It isn't any different in Canada, although it happens to a lesser degree. |
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| Dj O'Callaghan |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Yea and in our country the hard working immigrants would be the Eastern Europeans and the lazy immigrants would be the Anglo Saxons... |
Their a hard working lot and they don't bother me.
Yes you want to see the fat messes I have to see every day on the way to work. Free house in, never done a days work in their life, kids running riot, cannot say a single word without the words or **** being brought in.
With lazy British people. They need to get off their backsides and find a job it's not like there is shortages. This is my major problem with the UK.
| quote: | | (Also, rioting with police is hardly exclusive to "North Africans" is it? I assume you know what happened in Italy a few weeks ago?) |
Football riots? After the Police killed that Lazio fan?. There just seems to be a very negative relationship between the North African community and the Police in France. According to the media
| quote: | | I live in Paris and I can tell you that absolutely nothing is going on. There are like 150 youngsters involved in one small suburb city. The major fact is that poverty is increasing, the household confidence reachs a new low, the purchasing power doesn't rise for middle-classes. We need dramatic changes in our economic & social decisions but Sarkozy is just applying the narrowminded, demagogic programm thanks which he has been elected. I mean, 15 billions € which will go in the pocket of only 200,000 people hurts me as an economist. You can take smart measures, just like in Germany, without feeling guilty not to follow old fashioned theory. It's the same thing for the immigration issue: it's the same situation since 1979, but no measures have been taken. People involved are now from the 2nd or the 3rd generation and they still don't have in real life the same opportunities as others. It's kinda cliché to say they are waiting for welfare, now it's too low to allow people to reasonably do that. According to recent figures from our national statistic institute, only 15,000 take advantage with cupidity of the system. |
Very insightful that's for giving a French opinion on the situation. Sarkozy seems a very contraversial appointment. I meet some French people in Rome this year they intensly disliked him.
So only a small riot probably thats the British sensationalist media to be blaimed for that ;) they were making it out on our news like it was running battles etc! |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by venomX
So what's your point? Man up and spill the beans. I did mention before the fact that all around the world black people are disadvantaged. It isn't any different in Canada, although it happens to a lesser degree. |
I can just look at all the gangs in my area ... all run by blacks / African Canadians / whatever the "proper" term is. My brother got pulled in it, though he's white. His black friends also know this gang called the Crips or whatever its called, these guys are filthy rich. Using their drug money and crime they have very expensive pimped up cars. Mobile drug delivery services. And so on.
These guys dont live in "poor" areas either, my friend. But everytime I hear / read about another stabbing or shooting in downtown Hamilton (I live in uptown / Hamilton Mountain), there's always some of these gang people involved ...
Hey, I am not exaggerating. I am sure there's some white people involved in this , but all the drug dealers that I've heard of are all black.
BTW, I have never touched / tried any drugs. |
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| venomX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
I can just look at all the gangs in my area ... all run by blacks / African Canadians / whatever the "proper" term is. My brother got pulled in it, though he's white. His black friends also know this gang called the Crips or whatever its called, these guys are filthy rich. Using their drug money and crime they have very expensive pimped up cars. Mobile drug delivery services. And so on.
These guys dont live in "poor" areas either, my friend. But everytime I hear / read about another stabbing or shooting in downtown Hamilton (I live in uptown / Hamilton Mountain), there's always some of these gang people involved ...
Hey, I am not exaggerating. I am sure there's some white people involved in this , but all the drug dealers that I've heard of are all black.
BTW, I have never touched / tried any drugs. |
And? Let's get your points straight. You are stating a fact, all the gangs in your area are run by black people. That's great. So? All the gangs in Vancouver are mostly run by East Indians. In NY, probably Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. In California, probably Mexicans. The list goes on and on. Is that all your saying? Or are you saying that black people have a higher propensity to be violent? Or that they have an inclination to be criminals? If it is, at the end, it falls perfectly with what I stated before. The thug culture that has developed among urban black youth is a product of the years of abuse and discrimination they have suffered. Things like this are not easy to reverse. A parallel can be seen in the 'redneck' culture of the south. Same goes for hooligans in England. And the list again, goes on and on.
The sad thing is, instead of acknowledging the root of the problem, the injustice that lead to this culture, you expect them to just behave 'normally' like every other person. You look down upon them as if it was a simple decision they made and there were not a host of factors interacting to having created the culture they live in. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
I can just look at all the gangs in my area ... all run by blacks / African Canadians / whatever the "proper" term is. My brother got pulled in it, though he's white. His black friends also know this gang called the Crips or whatever its called, these guys are filthy rich. Using their drug money and crime they have very expensive pimped up cars. Mobile drug delivery services. And so on.
These guys dont live in "poor" areas either, my friend. But everytime I hear / read about another stabbing or shooting in downtown Hamilton (I live in uptown / Hamilton Mountain), there's always some of these gang people involved ...
Hey, I am not exaggerating. I am sure there's some white people involved in this , but all the drug dealers that I've heard of are all black.
BTW, I have never touched / tried any drugs. |
That has nothing whatsoever to do with Paris. Not only that, I think the people there are of Arabian (North African) descent and black, rather than just black as you say |
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| atbell |
| quote: | Originally posted by venomX
And? Let's get your points straight. You are stating a fact, all the gangs in your area are run by black people. That's great. So? All the gangs in Vancouver are mostly run by East Indians. In NY, probably Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. In California, probably Mexicans. The list goes on and on. Is that all your saying? Or are you saying that black people have a higher propensity to be violent? Or that they have an inclination to be criminals? If it is, at the end, it falls perfectly with what I stated before. The thug culture that has developed among urban black youth is a product of the years of abuse and discrimination they have suffered. Things like this are not easy to reverse. A parallel can be seen in the 'redneck' culture of the south. Same goes for hooligans in England. And the list again, goes on and on.
The sad thing is, instead of acknowledging the root of the problem, the injustice that lead to this culture, you expect them to just behave 'normally' like every other person. You look down upon them as if it was a simple decision they made and there were not a host of factors interacting to having created the culture they live in. |
The notion that the gangs frequently have nationalities as a common link is true but there are more then one "gang" in a town at a given time. Also "black" is not a country of origin, but Somoli or Rowandan, Haiti are countries of origin. The "black" gangs in Toronto seem to be based around Jane and Finch and have both African and Caribian roots. From what I understand very few are from the US, which would make a presence of people claiming to be "Crypts" (an LA gang) an oddity.
There are other gangs in Toronto, one of the most active is the Tamali Tigers who have a presence in Scarborough and might even have ties to the rebles who are fighting in Sirlanka.
Vancouver has East Indian gangs and Chinese gangs that I know of simply through the shootings that were reported while I was there.
If you don't know any white drug dealers you've not seen many bikers. They are the white gangs, they are global, and they run delivery services. Remember the 8 people found gunned down in a farm outside of London, ON ... yeah bikers.
The culture isn't simply "thug" culture, it's all about empowerment. In many imigrant comunities the transition can be quite difficult and the loss of former status that was held in the home country can be damaging. People who turn to gangs are doing so to gain some meager amount of space and power. Drug running just happens to be something that is very profitable and requires little effort which means that power can be gained through profit.
BTW I have both touched and tried drugs. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by venomX
And? Let's get your points straight. You are stating a fact, all the gangs in your area are run by black people. That's great. So? All the gangs in Vancouver are mostly run by East Indians. In NY, probably Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. In California, probably Mexicans. The list goes on and on. Is that all your saying? Or are you saying that black people have a higher propensity to be violent? Or that they have an inclination to be criminals? If it is, at the end, it falls perfectly with what I stated before. The thug culture that has developed among urban black youth is a product of the years of abuse and discrimination they have suffered. Things like this are not easy to reverse. A parallel can be seen in the 'redneck' culture of the south. Same goes for hooligans in England. And the list again, goes on and on.
The sad thing is, instead of acknowledging the root of the problem, the injustice that lead to this culture, you expect them to just behave 'normally' like every other person. You look down upon them as if it was a simple decision they made and there were not a host of factors interacting to having created the culture they live in. |
LOL, yeah, you have no idea how racist these gangs are to the white people ... "HEY WHITE BOY!" thats not a racist remark, but "HEY BLACK BOY!" is considered racist.
If you dont hire enough asians or blacks for your job, its called discrimination. But when you dont hire a lot whites, its not discrimination, at least its not publicized ...
Another example is when a woman punches a man, its no big deal. When a man punches a woman, its called an assault. And so on.
So whats your point? These people choose violence, drugs and crime - we dont push them to do it. We treat them like any person regardless of skin colour, race, religion, etc. They are not pushed to do what they do. Racism has little to do with it. They just like their hip hop culture and want to protect it, and follow what their rappers tell them to do, pretty much. Atbell kinda explained that as well. You dont seem to notice that. Except these people have been deeply influenced by American gangs and use similar tools of violence to achieve their goals more and more often.
There are many of people of various races and skin colours who just blend in and live as average Canadian citizens based on the British-Canadian system. The new growing system of gangs, drugs, violence is not a result of racism. Its a result of some groups of people refusing to adapt to the system and instead develop and implement their values, as well as values from other countries and regions that they think relate to their views the best. They use violence, hierarchial power system, gang codes to fullfill their goals of control, empowerment, self fullfillment or whatever else. |
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| DJ Shibby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
I can just look at all the gangs in my area ... all run by blacks / African Canadians / whatever the "proper" term is. My brother got pulled in it, though he's white. His black friends also know this gang called the Crips or whatever its called, these guys are filthy rich. Using their drug money and crime they have very expensive pimped up cars. Mobile drug delivery services. And so on.
These guys dont live in "poor" areas either, my friend. But everytime I hear / read about another stabbing or shooting in downtown Hamilton (I live in uptown / Hamilton Mountain), there's always some of these gang people involved ...
Hey, I am not exaggerating. I am sure there's some white people involved in this , but all the drug dealers that I've heard of are all black.
BTW, I have never touched / tried any drugs. |
I like how you stated your opinion, then slipped in that little disclaimer that you actually have no experience whatsoever in this category. |
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