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Yet Another Studio Monitor Thread. Thoughts, Please. (pg. 5)
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by echosystm
The switching thing is just a habbit of mine. I know lots of guys that do it. I don't switch while I'm actually MIXING, just when i'm mucking around, arranging or testing the mix. If you listen to one set of speakers for too long, your ears adapt to it or fatigue and you lose the ability to be objective. Usually you keep your sessions not too long to avoid this. Switching monitors is akin to taking a break, so you can keep your ears "fresh" for a long time.
I know a few guys who work in different recording studios where I live. They all do this technique of switching between speakers regularly, so that they can get through the ~3+ hours of listening without getting off track.
It has everything to do with your own ears and nothing to do with the accuracy/translation of the speakers. You're looking at it from the wrong perspective. ;)
If you look at a lot of producers studios (armin, thrillseekers, for example), you will find they often use two separate sets of monitors. They will often have one set at the computer (arranging) and another set at a mixing desk. This is the same concept - they obviously switch between the two for the different purposes. |
Dude, at the studios where I work, 3hr's isn't even the warm up and any engineer that can't go more than 3hr's plus staight, is going to be out of work very, very quickly. That's the whole reason you pick your speakers very carefully and learn them inside out, so you trust them and don't have to swap every hour to make sure you're not going amiss.
"Having" to switch about every to avoid "destroy(ing)" your abilty to mix defeats the ultimate point of knowing your monitors, which when properly done, gives you a constant perspective and reference (it's in the name) as to how your mix is going to end up. It sounds like you don't trust your monitors enough. But as with all things musical there is no right way, just whatever works for you.
Fledz is right about taking breaks - far more important than switching monitors that freequently. |
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| richg101 |
| quote: | Originally posted by StanVoid
i wouldn't be able to offer advice on subs since I don't have one but as far as monitors go - i've listened extensively to the Machkie HR824's and the dynaudio bm5a's at the local guitar center, along with a few other models by other manufacturers. I ended up going with the dynaudio's and am very happy with them.
As far as the sub goes, I say save your money. Subs are more essential for hip hop and real deep bass productions, most of the bass you hear in trance is audible on most monitors without any sub. Plus they're very tricky to set up and rely much more on room acoustics than nearfield monitors, since they can be placed pretty much in any sort of room as long as they're close to your ears. |
i have to dissagree about your hip hop/trance point. there is just as much bass in a trance tune as there is in a hip hop tune, and tbh, a trance crowd are more likely to notice a lack of deep bass/bass quality in the mix than a hip hop crowd are. they just seem more demanding and informed as far as production quality goes.
the real reason you would get a subwoofer is for a larger size room, where smaller monitors cannot move enough air to make the bass audiable. and even then, a yamaha subwoofer is pointless. the response is useless for sub frequency work. subwoofers in studios should be left to people who can afford the best and be able to afford a professional to caliberate them to the room.
if you need speakers to allow mixing of the deepest lows i will say this again... http://www.quested.com/s8r.html
i go on about these but they are seriously amazing for the low work. the amp in them is worth more than all the components that mackie use in their 6 and 8 inch budget models. its amazing! |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by richg101
i have to dissagree about your hip hop/trance point. there is just as much bass in a trance tune as there is in a hip hop tune, and tbh, a trance crowd are more likely to notice a lack of deep bass/bass quality in the mix than a hip hop crowd are. they just seem more demanding and informed as far as production quality goes.
the real reason you would get a subwoofer is for a larger size room, where smaller monitors cannot move enough air to make the bass audiable. and even then, a yamaha subwoofer is pointless. the response is useless for sub frequency work. subwoofers in studios should be left to people who can afford the best and be able to afford a professional to caliberate them to the room.
if you need speakers to allow mixing of the deepest lows i will say this again... http://www.quested.com/s8r.html
i go on about these but they are seriously amazing for the low work. the amp in them is worth more than all the components that mackie use in their 6 and 8 inch budget models. its amazing! |
While you're right about the Quested beinggreat monitors, the point about bass for hip hop vs. Trance is tottaly subjective. In fact in trance, what a lot of us call "bass" is actually lower mid. Speak to some true dub or raggae producers and they classify bass as being only below 100 hz (some producers I've spoken to say 50 - 80 and that you shouldn't hear bass, just feel it). A lot of trance "basslines" are well above that and some tracks only have harmonics or kicks that go below 60 hz.
Also, if you have a larger room, then buy monitors to fit that room - don't get small speakers and then buy a sub. If your room is large get large driver speakers (8"+).
I've said this in several posts/threads - stay away from subs. There a re simply too many variables at play to make them sound good, especially in home or project studios producing dance music. You can achieve excellent monitoring buy buying the correct speaker (to fit your setup) and using the best listening position possible. After that then look in to room treatment if necessary. |
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| Hydroid |
| quote: | Originally posted by alanzo
A good suggestion. I'll probably do that given their reputation. Thanks!
I haven't really thought about ADAM monitors. I haven't heard much about them, though (good or bad). I'd have to hear them before purchasing since they don't have a reputation.
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well first of all don't pick a certain monitor based on reputaion ;)
but if u want to , check the sound on sound reviews on thos :)
i had a pair of mackie hr624 and was going for dynaudio bm6a mk2 but i had some problems with supplier so i took the adam....
let me tell u i'm REALLY happy with those.
Adam p11 are super accurate , stereo image is amazing , crossover is a mint and surprisingly the low end BANGS really hard and REALLY accurate aswell.
go and check them , its alot better then the mackies trust me on that.
i have a pretty balanced room and the mackie was alot more muddy on some low end frews and the mids were nice but not more then that.
after two years of working with the mackie i bought the adam and its a whole different story ;) |
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| Fledz |
All I've heard is the Adam A7's but they were pretty damn good. Held up surprisingly well with the Dynaudio BM5a's even though they are much cheaper.
If their more expensive models are the same then I'm sure they are pretty good. It's such a shame they are damn ugly monitors but hell, it's the sound that matters. |
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| richg101 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
While you're right about the Quested beinggreat monitors, the point about bass for hip hop vs. Trance is tottaly subjective. In fact in trance, what a lot of us call "bass" is actually lower mid. Speak to some true dub or raggae producers and they classify bass as being only below 100 hz (some producers I've spoken to say 50 - 80 and that you shouldn't hear bass, just feel it). A lot of trance "basslines" are well above that and some tracks only have harmonics or kicks that go below 60 hz.
Also, if you have a larger room, then buy monitors to fit that room - don't get small speakers and then buy a sub. If your room is large get large driver speakers (8"+).
I've said this in several posts/threads - stay away from subs. There a re simply too many variables at play to make them sound good, especially in home or project studios producing dance music. You can achieve excellent monitoring buy buying the correct speaker (to fit your setup) and using the best listening position possible. After that then look in to room treatment if necessary. |
a well mixed trance track goes all the way down to 20hz before mastering. if it doesnt then it wont sound as good. |
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| alanzo |
I was able to get to a Guitar Center to compare monitors.
Overall, the Mackie HR824mkIIs were the best. Although they seemed to have more mid-bass than others, the bass extension, stereo field, and sweet spot where amazing. It sounded like there was another speaker in the center of the arrangement.
Second would have been Event SP8. These, somewhat to my surprise, had a very nice over-all sound.
The Dynaudio BM5s where way too "in your face" and the bass extension was hardly present. KRKs where way too intense in the highs.
Just my 2c on those... |
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| StanVoid |
| quote: | Originally posted by alanzo
I was able to get to a Guitar Center to compare monitors.
Overall, the Mackie HR824mkIIs were the best. Although they seemed to have more mid-bass than others, the bass extension, stereo field, and sweet spot where amazing. It sounded like there was another speaker in the center of the arrangement.
Second would have been Event SP8. These, somewhat to my surprise, had a very nice over-all sound.
The Dynaudio BM5s where way too "in your face" and the bass extension was hardly present. KRKs where way too intense in the highs.
Just my 2c on those... |
glad to hear you finally made it out to a guitar center! The 824's are definitely a great pair of speakers, but beware that their large bass extension tends to make your mixes lack bass on other, more regular systems. So just compensate for that fact when you mix on them. The BM5a's are definitely more in your face and their sound is much more defined tan the 824's. At first I was concerned that they may be boosting the highs too much, but it only appears to be that way because they dont' have the same bass extension as the 824's - so overall, their highs appear to stand out more. I liked that the BM5a's were so crisp and revealing, though - that's why I got them. They reveal everything in your mix, even things as slight as reverb trails. The 824's, on the other hand, didn't give me that accuracy, and it felt like i was listening to them through a tiny wall compared to the bm5a's. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
The HR824's are truly great monitors, but you will have to learn how they sound (as with all) and are comparitively more bass heavy than some of the other monitor speakers listed. Having said that, it is really not be too hard to adjust the 824's (with the switches on the rear) and your mixes to compensate for this. A real bonus of them is that they don't have a really narrow sweet spot, which can be a lifesaver if your room or listening position is not perfect.
I know they are great monitors, but the dynaudios have never floated my boat. At my previous job I've demo'd them at least a couple of hundred times for customers (and even though some of them fell in love) they never sounded as good other monitors.
Edit: one other thing I've noticed is that shops (like guitar centre) really push the dynaudio's at you. Why?......in my experience, the sales margin was better them. |
Glad to hear it alnzo, you'll be very happy with the mackies......for the money I think they are the best in their price bracket, but it does come down to personal choice.
Just as posted before (above quoted) you will have to learn the monitors and set them up correctly for the pronouced bass (really, in the same way you would have to compensate for bass in the other direction when using the BM5's).
By the way, if you can get a good condition used pair of 824 mk1's, there are ridiculous deals and they are still superb monitors (only slightly different from mk2) at the moment but beware - you never know how hard they have been driven or fr how long, or if they are even the same age as one another. |
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| alanzo |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
By the way, if you can get a good condition used pair of 824 mk1's, there are ridiculous deals and they are still superb monitors (only slightly different from mk2) at the moment but beware - you never know how hard they have been driven or fr how long, or if they are even the same age as one another. |
A good point. Thanks! I'll be sure to ask this if I purchase a used pair. |
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| alanzo |
Anyone have additional thoughts on the ADAM A7s? They seem to be quite popular, actually. Unfortunatly the Guitar Center I went to did not have any ADAM monitors for me to listen to.
How do they compare to Mackie 824s? |
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