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Why are my sounds distant and background-ish?
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View this Thread in Original format
| HardTranceProd |
I have a question that hopefully some experienced guys can answer:
When I listen to professional, commercial tracks, every element in the track -- whether it's bass, lead, pads, etc. -- is like an object that I can almost reach out and "touch". By that I mean that the object is in the foreground, in front of me, and has clear depth and width.
But when I listen to my own tracks, the sound is very distant, somewhere in the background. Believe me, I don't have reverb on my instruments, and in fact I try to EQ and compress my track elements correctly. But no matter what I do, no matter what I try, I can't bring my sound to the "foreground". Sometimes I feel like grabbing the MID knob and turning it to the right, to add some mid-frequencies, thereby artificially improving "depth"... but of course that's wrong.
I have some examples that I'll post in about an hour (right now my home computer is offline), so we'll have something concrete to discuss. I am using software only; no hardware; but these days, software is just as good, e.g. Nexus, so the source of the sound can't be the issue.
I'd like to hear responses from people who know what they're talking about (no bull). Thanks |
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| Zombie0729 |
well i think the best guide goes like this:
height: EQ & compresson
Width: panning & imaging
Depth: Reverb
also you're using a ROMpler so how those things are sampled are very important... who knows if it was a stereo mic, or mic'ing a cabinet, which will add natural reverb to your music. |
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| Project-K |
| Depth isn't just about adding reverb, it also has alot to do with how you space things relative to each other. You don't want to have too many elements fighting over the same space. Keep the lows grounded, no reverb, no stereo, give the highs more space with reverb and panning. Once you have a clearly defined space, you understand where every element fits, so that when you add a new one, you'll have a better idea of where to put it to make it stand out. |
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| richg101 |
try playing with your mixing and eq. keep turning the parts up more and more on the mixer. turn off any compression/limiting on everything, and remove all eq/comp/limiting on the master output if you have it on. try and get the track sounding big without any comp/limiters used. keep pushing your volumes up and adjusting eq's on the seperate tracks while keeping the output below 0.0db.
once (and only once) you have something big and you are happy with how it is sounding you can then use more eq and comp on each channel to get it sounding better. (keeping below 0.0db)
once you are happy with this you should add to your master out (in this order) 1. eq 2. compressor 3.eq 4.limiter
first turn off all the effects on the master output..
turn on the first eq and adjust the eq to make any slight corrections.
turn on the compressor. ratio:1.5 attack:5ms release:auto Threshold: adjust till you get the compression level hitting about 1-2db (or play around till you dont notice too much degradation to the signal).
turn on second eq. and adjust to couteract any dulling of the sound.
turn on limiter, then turn it on/off/on/off etc. listen to what happens. does it make a serious change to the sound? it shouldnt yet. turn the limiter to off. now, go back onto your comp and turn the 'make up gain' to +6db. this will be seriously louder and the output will peak over the 0.0db. turn the limiter back on. does it affect the sound much? if it does then lower the level of make up gain used on the comp.
overall it bet the problem is because of your mixing. without any processing of the main output you must try to push as much as you can through the output without going over 0.0db.
you will find that cutting all lows (30hz and below) from the track will allow a lot more volume to be pushed through the limiter before it deteriorates the sound too much. i dislike this method because you loose that proper low sound.
maybe this will help you. maybe it wont. but play around..
rich:) |
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| HardTranceProd |
all right, I have some concrete examples to show you:
Let's take a simple Eurodance song, which clearly shows the elements: bass, kick, and most importantly lead.
Here's the professional, real sample of this track:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/w8qhc9
Note how crisp the leads are and how they "stand on their own".
Here's my production, with my settings:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/02nhfm
Mine is muddy and somewhere in the background (disregard the volume level, maybe that's not so important). Also disregard the specific waveforms used -- my focus here is clarity, not the specificity of a particular sound. So, even though the bass is a bit different, my question is about presence and clarity.
thanks |
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| Zombie0729 |
| quote: | Originally posted by HardTranceProd
Also disregard the specific waveforms used -- my focus here is clarity, not the specificity of a particular sound. So, even though the bass is a bit different, my question is about presence and clarity.
thanks |
uhh the waveforms chosen have a HUGE part to do with why things stick out.
you picked all the wrong sounds man... this has nothing to do with your "background-ish" ... also sounds like your drums & bassline are underwater try less compression. |
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| HardTranceProd |
thanks for the response... although I could have chosen my own sounds but still made them professionally clear and in the foreground. It's just one example of one song. But all songs, no matter their sounds, are professionally mastered.
Could you elaborate on why too much compression makes it "underwater"? |
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| Zombie0729 |
well man this is where your logic fails. you need to stop thinking like "i should be able to get any sound to fit" because thats not a proper mindset. Hallow kick drums works well with meaty basslines, whitenoise shakers work will with triangle lead lines.
what you're trying to say is, i can take any sound, no matter the frequency spectrum and make it fit on something else using EQ. You should first try and match your accompianent at the very ROOT of your sound design... if you have to go into post-processing afterwards(eq, compression, etc) it should be minimal.
quit trying to make a sounds, sound good later. start at the bottom with GREAT sounds then you'll find what you're looking for. |
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| HardTranceProd |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zombie0729
quit trying to make a sounds, sound good later. start at the bottom with GREAT sounds then you'll find what you're looking for. |
i agree. But it's not like I'm using instruments. The source of my sounds is Nexus, which is as professional as you're gonna get. So it's not true that I'm using bad samples. |
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| Zombie0729 |
you're not picking the right sounds for the right application.... thats what i'm telling you.
/thread |
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| Eldritch |
| quote: | Originally posted by HardTranceProd
i agree. But it's not like I'm using instruments. The source of my sounds is Nexus, which is as professional as you're gonna get. So it's not true that I'm using bad samples. |
LOL :haha: |
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| Nightshift |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eldritch
LOL :haha: |
+1 |
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