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Ricardo Villalobos - Enfants EP (pg. 6)
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| Blake_Jarrell |
| quote: | Originally posted by paulandrews
What makes you think this is what they wanted to achieve? |
because they are quite the marketing geniouses |
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| Ted Promo |
| quote: | Originally posted by DOOMBOT
That was one of the points I was making. Read Clovis, I know you can do it.
By the way, search for them yourself. ;) |
If you're presenting an argument with a supposed factual basis then you bear the burden of proof. |
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| muffinass |
i've never had the pleasure to actually attend a proper minimal set from either hawtin or villalobos, but from the looks of it, i don't think Enfants or any of the long, over-indulgent releases of his were made so as to have them played in their entirety.
judging from his Fabric mix, which borders on sonic ambience, rather than minimal music, his Primer Encuentro Latino-Americano track was cut-off. what was really impressive, was the full inclusion of Andruic & Japan.
what i'm sort-of getting at is that for me, (and i'm fairly new to the minimal scene) the Villalobos releases, as they are, are meant to be experimented with, rather than slapped on and mixed in (at whatever cue-points).
to wrap up the pointless rant, Enfants looks like a small sample that could very well be part of something like the Fabric mix. also to note, his Fabric release (and educate me if there are other artists or releases in a similar vein) reminded me of the cut-paste experimentation of John Zorn, Fantomas etc. which, in reality, offers a complete new outlook on the future of electronic music.
probably not for the dancefloor, but definitely for the headphones.
and to stick to the current discussion, i think, like it was previously mentioned, that the marketing and use of these tracks needs to be addressed, not necessarily their content. |
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| paulandrews |
| quote: | Originally posted by Blake_Jarrell
because they are quite the marketing geniouses |
What about good old artistic provocation? No space for it in there, you think? Marketing sounds like they are making coldly calculated music that is intended to sell and nothing more, and I don't really think this is the case.
I also think you're a bit generalizing when you're talking about 'Germany' in regard to minimal and marketing - there are many 'minimal' labels and producers (though today it's more like stripped down house, which is what 'Enfants' in it's entirety is too btw) that just focus on putting out what they think is good music. Of course, then you have labels like Get Physical that have been releasing accessible for quite a while, but it would still be a mistake to dismiss this whole minimal thing as business & money driven. |
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| Blake_Jarrell |
| quote: | Originally posted by paulandrews
What about good old artistic provocation? No space for it in there, you think? Marketing sounds like they are making coldly calculated music that is intended to sell and nothing more, and I don't really think this is the case. |
sure, theres still plenty of art in it, i never said otherwise. but consider the following:
1. the product is essentially a 17 minute beatless one bar loop printed on one side of a vinyl, the other side is the missing beats. there is a purpose to this.
2. the product is only sold on vinyl in limited amounts, purposely
3. the product cannot be purchased online in digital form, on purpose.
4. in the laws of supply and demand economics, creating a shortage of a product creates a higher demand, especially when there is already hype surrounding the product.
5. vinyl costs more than a $2.50 download from beatport. because of the high price that people paid, they tend to believe the product they bought is more special. a great example, (and this happens alot), is producers who buy a load of really expensive hardware that they dont need and tell other producers that they cant produce good sounding music without it.
so as you can see, yes this was carefully and precisely marketed.
my question to you is who do you think the target market is?
even your guy burial makes marketing decisions. he may not know it, and he may think his decisions are purely artistic, but presenting yourself a certain way will tend to capture the attention of a certain target market.
| quote: | Originally posted by paulandrews
I also think you're a bit generalizing when you're talking about 'Germany' in regard to minimal and marketing - there are many 'minimal' labels and producers (though today it's more like stripped down house, which is what 'Enfants' in it's entirety is too btw) that just focus on putting out what they think is good music. Of course, then you have labels like Get Physical that have been releasing accessible for quite a while, but it would still be a mistake to dismiss this whole minimal thing as business & money driven. |
I was generalizing the top tier 'german' minimal artists because alot of them share the same management. just because there are hundreds of different labels, doesnt mean they arent managed by only a few people. and again were only talking about the top tier stuff here, such as get physical like you mentioned, which is the only stuff that is marketed, thus why it is more successful. |
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| woscar99 |
| quote: | Originally posted by paulandrews
...coldly calculated music... |
Interesting choice of words there. That's exactly how I describe minimal. :o |
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| julien2 |
Another controversial and polarizing tune by one of the geniuses of EDM.
Only he can have this kind of tracks released. He doesn't care what anyone thinks, he's proven he's good.
The fact is, there's probably a handful of DJs who will be able to intelligently play that track, including himself.
I love him :) |
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| d-miurge |
| quote: | Originally posted by julien2
He doesn't care what anyone thinks, he's proven he's good.
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Maybe I'm wrong, but I tend to think that you constantly have to prove you're good if you make art. |
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| seneca |
| quote: | Originally posted by d-miurge
Maybe I'm wrong, but I tend to think that you constantly have to prove you're good if you make art. |
you are only as good as your last release... EDM is like chewing gum... loads of flavor for a short amount of time then once it loses its flavor, it's disposed of and most of the time forgotten about (via the DJs that play those tracks)
I'd be surprised to see this hype last for another month or 2. The next massively hyped tune will quickly steer everyone's attention in that direction. |
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by julien2
Another controversial and polarizing tune by one of the geniuses of EDM.
Only he can have this kind of tracks released. He doesn't care what anyone thinks, he's proven he's good.
The fact is, there's probably a handful of DJs who will be able to intelligently play that track, including himself.
I love him :) |
I absolutely hate this mentality and wish it would die a quick death - unfortunately Villalobos, Hawtin, and many of the other fellows in league with them can do no wrong in a lot of their fans eyes.
I just fail to see how making needlessly self-indulgent 12-20 minute beat tools over and over again warrants the kind of praise people levy upon Ricardo. I don't see the talent what-so-ever. |
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| d-miurge |
| quote: | Originally posted by seneca
you are only as good as your last release... EDM is like chewing gum... loads of flavor for a short amount of time then once it loses its flavor, it's disposed of and most of the time forgotten about (via the DJs that play those tracks)
I'd be surprised to see this hype last for another month or 2. The next massively hyped tune will quickly steer everyone's attention in that direction. |
What you say is right, I was trying to see further than the EDM field. Your statement can fit with almost every style of music, and in general art. That's today society!  |
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| rory21 |
Well what ever he is doing is working, already 6 pages of response for what is actually fairly average track. I'm going to se Luciano on Friday and Ame on Sat. I'm sure one of them is bound to drop it, if not both.
I will go nuts though when I hear it |
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