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---> break this down in layman's terms?
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View this Thread in Original format
| heathen |
Sitting in Meditation
Sitting in meditation does not primarily
Mean that the mind should be grasped,
That the idea of purity should be clung to,
Nor that it should be motionless.
When you talk of grasping the mind,
Remember that the mind is fundamentally
Unreal and is known to be illusory.
Therefore, there is nothing that can be grasped
When you talk of clinging to the idea
Of purity, remember that the self-nature
Is essentially pure. It is only due to false
Thoughts that the absolute is concealed.
If there is no thinking, the self-nature will
Appear pure and clean.
- Bodhisattvasila |
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| DawnTreader |
nigga plz
/nchs09 |
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| Spacey Orange |
meditation is not concerned with restraining the mind. there is no mind. meditation is not concerned with controlling yourself. there is no self. when you realize this you will understand the essence of the path.
[you dig?] |
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| heathen |
if i didn't dig, i wouldn't inquire.
how do you get back to that cloud? |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| ing hippies :rolleyes: |
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| Spacey Orange |
| quote: | Originally posted by heathen
if i didn't dig, i wouldn't inquire.
how do you get back to that cloud? |
'you dig' means 'you understand?';) |
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| Omega_M |
Let me make an attempt to explain these verses. I am simply going to state my interpretation of the verses within the Hindu spiritual framework as I understand it. I am not going to debate whether the Buddhist/Hindu philosophies are right or wrong.
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There exists a "reality" which forms the basis for the universe to exist. The goal of meditation is to create a thoughless state wherein this reality can be experienced. When performing meditation, the subject and the object are the same! We wish to objectively study the very nature of our own self !! This "reality" is at a more fundamental level than our thoughts. Since it is the basis for the very existence of this universe, it is impossible to grasp or understand. It can only be experienced but cannot be described. As an rough analogy, it is impossible to define mass, space or time (which are fundamental quantities) in terms of quantities such has force, velocity or acceleration which are derived from the fundamental quantities.
| quote: | | When you talk of grasping the mind, remember that the mind is fundamentally unreal and is known to be illusory. Therefore, there is nothing that can be grasped |
When seen in the above context, mind is unreal (or rather derived from something else, just as velocity is from space and time). So the sutra tells us that meditation is not an inquiry of the mind. Rather, it is of something far more fundamental and "real".
| quote: | | When you talk of clinging to the idea of purity, remember that the self-nature is essentially pure. |
Clinging to an idea of purity creates an idea of impurity. The purpose of meditation is to go beyond the concepts of real/unreal, pure/impure or to go beyond the concept of dualism and realize the underlying non dual (Advaita) principle of this Universe and Self. This idea is the essence of Advaita Vedanta. Advaita means - A(non)- Dvaita(dual). A person who has experienced this nondual reality (or Brahman) through meditation knows that he himself IS the reality. (Aham Brahmasi - I am Brahman, or Tat Twam Asi - You are THAT). Although the concept of Brahman is essentially that of a formless and attribute less reality, there exist several very high spiritual states where the concept is interpreted as being "good" or having attributes of purity, bliss, truth, gods etc. The difference between these states with attributes (Savikalpa) and the ultimate attribute less state (NirVikalpa) is small. But because it is easier for us to describe something with attributes, the reality has been said to be ultimately pure, although one should not cling to this concept, because it creates dualism and does not take meditation beyond and into the realm of non-dualism.
| quote: | It is only due to false thoughts that the absolute is concealed. If there is no thinking, the self-nature will
Appear pure and clean. |
Through meditation, strive to attain a thoughtless state. This is the state where the absence of thoughts creates an ego less state (where the sense of "I" disappears), which is necessary to experience the nondual reality. In this state, the reality and self are perceived to be one and the same. And as I have already said, the Savikalpa state is easier to describe because it has attributes, hence the self-nature is said to be "pure" and "clean".
So the bottom line is that
| quote: | Sitting in meditation does not primarily mean that
(1) The mind should be grasped,
(2) That the idea of purity should be clung to, nor that
(3) It should be motionless. |
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It should be understood that these verses are translated into english. The translated text does not convey the exact essence. |
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| dj_alfi |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spacey Orange
'you dig' means 'you understand?';) |
yes it does, you dig? |
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| eROs.au |
| quote: | Originally posted by Omega_M
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I've experienced some of that through meditation. I also was able to easily slip into that state of mind through a small dose of mescaline. It's a very ...interesting ... thing. Hard to describe
I'm sure I've only scratched the surface of what is possible. I can't imagine how far one can go through a lifetime of meditation. |
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| Omega_M |
| quote: | Originally posted by eROs.au
I've experienced some of that through meditation. I also was able to easily slip into that state of mind through a small dose of mescaline. It's a very ...interesting ... thing. Hard to describe |
Awesome !
| quote: | | I'm sure I've only scratched the surface of what is possible. I can't imagine how far one can go through a lifetime of meditation. |
Indeed. Try and see for yourself ! Meditation, with or without the religious flavor, is a very rewarding experience. |
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| kadomony |
| descartes explained it better. |
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| Spacey Orange |
i tried to meditate many times in the past but found too difficult (me too impatient). my trippiest drug free experience was when i started to think of myself in the second person as a book suggested as an exercise.
for instance, when i was walking across campus one morning i thought to myself 'he is walking'. when i opened a door 'he opens a door' or 'a door opens'. it's really hard to describe the trippiness of that experience but that's as close as i gotten to nothingness. i became overwhelmed with happiness (i should have written 'he became overwhelmed with happiness').  |
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