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Tank Posturing in South America
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| atbell |
So it looks like Chavez has moved from plain fire brand rhetoric to fire brand rhetoric backed by armored columns and air readiness.
He claims to be ready to support Ecuador and/or respond to any incursion into his own territory.
If things go down does anyone know if he has the support of any other countries in South America? Would this be, using Chavez's allusion, like a 6 day war with every country in the area moving on Columbia? (Lira, have you got any thoughts?)
Looks like sovereignty issues are popping up again. I believe the list is currently:
Columbia -> Ecuador
Turkey -> Iraq
Iran -> Iraq
Afgan -> Pakistan
Ethiopia -> Somalia
Any others? |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by atbell
So it looks like Chavez has moved from plain fire brand rhetoric to fire brand rhetoric backed by armored columns and air readiness.
He claims to be ready to support Ecuador and/or respond to any incursion into his own territory.
If things go down does anyone know if he has the support of any other countries in South America? Would this be, using Chavez's allusion, like a 6 day war with every country in the area moving on Columbia? (Lira, have you got any thoughts?)
Looks like sovereignty issues are popping up again. I believe the list is currently:
Columbia -> Ecuador
Turkey -> Iraq
Iran -> Iraq
Afgan -> Pakistan
Ethiopia -> Somalia
Any others? |
colombia has US support, and the US military operates inside colombia alongside colombian troops. I don't believe chavez is stupid enough to try anything. you can bet US would provide signficant resources to assist the colombians, if not outright manpower (but i'm sure the US would have troops operating covertly with colombians). Chavez is just trying to act like a tough guy, his bark is certainly loud, but i seriously doubt there's any corresponding bite. and i seriously doubt any other latin american country is about to get involved in a dispute that would ultimately involve the US. |
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| George Smiley |
| The Colombian regime is one of the most brutal and oppressive on the planet, I cannot believe they have the support of America, but then again, Saudi Arabia's biggest ally is America too so I suppose it's keeping within the trend... |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by atbell
If things go down does anyone know if he has the support of any other countries in South America? Would this be, using Chavez's allusion, like a 6 day war with every country in the area moving on Columbia? (Lira, have you got any thoughts?) |
So far, Brazil has not really cared much about it. Our president got in touch with Álvaro Uribe and Rafael Correa, telling them to make up, but that was it. We're not interested in a war, and both the media and the government are tired of Chavez' rants and raves here... we just wish Ecuador accepted the Colombian apologies.
Personally, I find it really unlikely that anything will happen, specially if Chavez decides to orchestrate an attack. He's pretty much just the third wheel in this case :p
(Is this how you use this idiom?) |
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| hiram |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
The Colombian regime is one of the most brutal and oppressive on the planet, I cannot believe they have the support of America, but then again, Saudi Arabia's biggest ally is America too so I suppose it's keeping within the trend... |
what makes you say this? |
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| Magnetonium |
Now that I think of it, I dont really know what the hell Colombian government actually is. But I know George knows his , so I shall read more about this oppressive Colombian government.
I feel like blabbing away on this thought, and so here I go. I think I am going to start my own ing blog (dont you think I am already long overdue for one? ;-) heheh)
I often picture in my mind the different possibilities, chain of events in the world politics, the countless possibilities and outcomes possible if American empire collapses one day in a way of a big economic / financial breakdown. I can see how USA has helped turn Colombia into an never ending war zone, among many other countries in the world who have been brutally scarred and forced to change to meet USA's foreign policy agenda. When it goes away, big violence will flare up in such regions as Colombia, Kosovo, Georgia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine and any other countries which have had their own political and economical motivations suppressed or taken away.
I know that for example communism has many evils to it, and the only reason why communist/socialist movements still exist today in Western hemisphere is because they are fueled by American foreign policy. They are a response to it, they attract people who are pissed off who might not even like socialism deep in their heart.
Soviet Union collapsed because there was no US-funded and supported bandits attacking the country from within to stir support for the communist party. Soviet people themselves defeated the communist disease. One day when Politburo decided to send tanks to squash Gorbachev's Perestroika, there was noone who was wanted to man these tanks.
Same with Cuba I think is coming. Sooner or later, once their Castro family decides to open the window, the wall will crash down and noone will even man their tanks. People will just not show up to save Castro family.
While Colombia is a different story. As long as Americans continue to fight and hurt Colombian people, resistance will remain. Even worse, in the end Colombia can become another Iranian Revolution, or maybe Chavez was already one? I personally think that if Americans left Colombia, it would be taken over by Marxists who would eventually collapse on their own from their doomed governance. Why feed the monster? Why waste billions of dollars and killing innocent people and allowing innovative ways for resistance to use excuses to continue on their massive drug business to fund their guerilla campaigns? I guarantee you if FARC will have no Americans to fight in Colombia, they will start fighting each other for drugs and control or else they will weaken from inactivity and collapse on their own. Something along those lines. Until then they have a common enemy. |
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| hiram |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Now that I think of it, I dont really know what the hell Colombian government actually is. But I know George knows his , so I shall read more about this oppressive Colombian government.
I feel like blabbing away on this thought, and so here I go. I think I am going to start my own ing blog (dont you think I am already long overdue for one? ;-) heheh)
I often picture in my mind the different possibilities, chain of events in the world politics, the countless possibilities and outcomes possible if American empire collapses one day in a way of a big economic / financial breakdown. I can see how USA has helped turn Colombia into an never ending war zone, among many other countries in the world who have been brutally scarred and forced to change to meet USA's foreign policy agenda. When it goes away, big violence will flare up in such regions as Colombia, Kosovo, Georgia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine and any other countries which have had their own political and economical motivations suppressed or taken away.
I know that for example communism has many evils to it, and the only reason why communist/socialist movements still exist today in Western hemisphere is because they are fueled by American foreign policy. They are a response to it, they attract people who are pissed off who might not even like socialism deep in their heart.
Soviet Union collapsed because there was no US-funded and supported bandits attacking the country from within to stir support for the communist party. Soviet people themselves defeated the communist disease. One day when Politburo decided to send tanks to squash Gorbachev's Perestroika, there was noone who was wanted to man these tanks.
Same with Cuba I think is coming. Sooner or later, once their Castro family decides to open the window, the wall will crash down and noone will even man their tanks. People will just not show up to save Castro family.
While Colombia is a different story. As long as Americans continue to fight and hurt Colombian people, resistance will remain. Even worse, in the end Colombia can become another Iranian Revolution, or maybe Chavez was already one? I personally think that if Americans left Colombia, it would be taken over by Marxists who would eventually collapse on their own from their doomed governance. Why feed the monster? Why waste billions of dollars and killing innocent people and allowing innovative ways for resistance to use excuses to continue on their massive drug business to fund their guerilla campaigns? I guarantee you if FARC will have no Americans to fight in Colombia, they will start fighting each other for drugs and control or else they will weaken from inactivity and collapse on their own. Something along those lines. Until then they have a common enemy. |
great sig!!
as far as i know, which isnt much about colombia or south america, colombias govt. is not repressive. i happen to live in miami and work with many colombians. all of which love their country, hate the FARC and have no complaints about their govt. |
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| tathi |
I´ve lived in Ecuador and i´ve spent a few months in Colombia, they are the two most amazing countries i´ve ever been to.
Here´s a little background on teh region: Ecuador, Colombia, and Venezuala were once one country ¨Gran Colombia¨ which was formed under Simon Bolivar who lead the fight against the spanish, Simon Bolivar dreamed of uniting latin america against European Imperialism, Chavez sees himself as a modern day Bolivar who wants to unite Latin America against US imperialism. Colombia is the only country in South America that is right wing conservative and a close alley of the USA
To give you an idea about Presidnet Alvaro Uribe´s, his parents were assasinated by the FARC guerillas when he was 11, so you can imagine the vendetta he harbours against them. To give Alvaro Uribe credit, Colombia has become much much safer in the major poppulation centres, he has taken back control of the highways between Bogota, Manizales, Medellin, Cartegena, Santa Marta where in the past FARC guerillas controlled during the night. The protest against the FARC recently in colombia were the biggest in history, the FARC have lost the hearts and minds of the people because their struggle is no longer an idealogical struggle (justice for the marginilised poor) but for control of the Coca fields.
Now in the countryside it is completely different, the peasants have been marginilised, Colombia has the second biggest internal refugee crisis in the entire world after Iraq, FARC Guerillas will go into a village put their guns to heads of the village leaders and say ¨feed us or die¨ so the village naturally gives the Guerillas support, the Government and US backed Paramilitaries might come to the village a week later and execute every single man, woman, and child for supporting the Guerillas.
The peasants are being pushed further and further into the jungle, their lives are horrible, which is why most of them decide to live in the slums of Bogota (i´ll get to its problems soon) for the peasants who decide to stay on the fringe of society because they cannot either afford to migrate to the cities or they are trapped, the only method in which they can support themselves is to grow Coca Leaves, they have pleaded to the US government for AId to support the growing of different types of crops, but this doesnt interest the US because selling weapons to stop the Cocaine trade is much more lucrative than aiding poor peasants to grow alternative crops. The Coca plant is one of the few things that can grow in the jungle, I believe the US are still using Round Up to spray parts of the jungle
Now Bogota and Medellin are hte two most amazing cities on earth! I could live in both places, they are ing beautiful! but they have their problems, Bogota has 10million people, with huge shanty towns which are are lawless places, places controlled by the Government / US backed paramilitaries, they have been known to go around ethnically cleansing people in provinces of Bogota just for being poor. These cities are very modern though, and as long as you dont go into the poorer areas they are very safe (among the safest in latin america) Colombia has one of the biggest divides between rich and poor in teh world, there is a very wealthy middle and upper class. There hasn´t been a president in Colombias history thats been as poppular amongst the middle and upper class as Uribe.
I think one of the problems with the Ejercito (Colombias military) is that they are young kinds drafted into the military, most of them are bored less and are smoking pot doing crack while they are on duty, (ive talked to commanders before) the Paramilitary are even worse because they are above the law, the leaders are psychopaths and probably crack cocaine addicts. In colombia there is something called ¨La Economia Fantasma¨ The Ghost Economy, 8 billion dollars of its GDP comes from Cocain and is channeled into legitimate enterprise, but to play devils advocate, there is less poverty in Colombia than in other latin ameirican countries, so maybe its a good thing? The US backed Government and Paramilaries are both corrupt with Cocaine money, as much if not more than the FARC Guerillas
To my understanding Uribe has just organised an amnesty for one of the most ruthless paramilitaries on the condition they give up their arms, while there is little justice in this i think for the long term for Colombia its a good thing.
Chavez and Uribe hate eath other, Chavez supports the ideaology of the Guerillas (even though it has long become bankrupt) most of the Cocaine is smuggled out of the eastern border with venezuala which is very porous. Chavez believes that Uribe is a puppet of the US and any act of agression on this border will be instigated by the US
Ecuadors president Rafael Correa is AMAZING, a truly great guy who isn´t an instrument of Ecuadors Rich and genuinely wants the best for his country. He and Chavez are friends but Correa is not a ¨Chavista¨ he is his own man, while he is a left leaning socialist he got a PhD in Economics in Philidelphia University so his not a complete idiot. Ecuador has always stated its neutrality with regards to Colombias internal problems so they don´t spill over into Ecuador, i think it was stupid bombing their northern border.
Personally i doubt war will break out, i will have to talk to some of my Colombian / Ecuadorian / Venezualan friends to find out what the tensions are like in their countries. I think i might also edit this long rant and see if i can get it published in a newspaper :D |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| Great read, thanks for posting. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Great read, thanks for posting. |
+1 definitely!! |
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| Magnetonium |
Holly now I know ten times more about Colombia than before. Great read, thanks! |
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| Zharen |
Well thank you for giving me another reason to hate my country. ;)
Seriously though, that was a good read. |
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