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The Truman Show is an incredibly disturbing move. (pg. 2)
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| Paradox Lost |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beat Blog
I'm going to FIJI! |
Well, don't try to book a trip now- it's the 'busy season.' |
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| Stasis |
| Still consider it one of my favorite movies...I get dissed alot of citing it too. I think a lot of people might have your initial reaction, RJT, and gloss over some of its implications. |
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| trewqy |
The final scene was one of the most amazing cinematic experiences I have ever had.
I seriously didnt expect that boat to just sail through a painted wall of sky. And when he finishes it off with "Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night".. well thats just brilliant. |
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| eROs.au |
| we had to study it in highschool, i think it was in year nine?? anyway all i remeber was that at the time i was too much of a stoner to remeber... |
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| Arbiter |
It's really a great movie that raises a lot of issues even beyond the obvious ones. I think that it's especially interesting in light of the prominence that so-called "reality television" has gained in the time since.
I don't know that I consider it especially disturbing (within the larger context of how people actually think and behave, it doesn't strike me as especially atypical), but because it paints a picture of hypotehtical human action that many people would find objectionable, I can understand the characterization.
Most people are essentially raised from birth in their own not-so-giant bubbles (and, unlike Truman, most would never have the courage to leave them.) Most people's lives are largely orchestrated by phenomena outside of the conscious control of those living them. Granted, I don't think anyone is dealing with a comparable level of lying in their lives, but there's a large gap between lying and telling the whole and precise truth, and I do submit that a not inconsiderable portion of most people's words and actions fall a good deal farther towards the former part of that spectrum than we'd like to admit.
Ed Harris' character presents an interesting religious commentary. He is, essentially, the "God" of Truman's encapsulated world. Consider what so many people believe: that there is an all-powerful "God" who created the known universe, who takes an interest in their personal affairs and to a significant extent guides their lives. To many people, this is not just a belief - it is a desire. They actually want to have their lives controlled and managed much the way that Truman's is in the movie.
If we are to reject his character as "demented," "disturbing," et cetera, then I think it's fair to attribute a similar characterization to such a "God," if there were one. I think the fact that most everyone is inclined to agree with Truman's choice when, at the end of the movie, Truman rejects that level of control, mirrors the reasons why we ought to reject the idea that a personal God overseeing the daily lives of human beings would somehow be a desirable or even acceptable state of existence. |
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| dj_alfi |
another film that has somewhat a similar setting to this one, is Bad Boy Bubby ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106341/ )
"Bad Boy Bubby is just that: a bad boy. So bad, in fact, that his mother has kept him locked in their house for his entire thirty years, convincing him that the air outside is poisonous"
I recommend it to all you sick fvckers here in the COR. |
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arbiter
Ed Harris' character presents an interesting religious commentary. He is, essentially, the "God" of Truman's encapsulated world. Consider what so many people believe: that there is an all-powerful "God" who created the known universe, who takes an interest in their personal affairs and to a significant extent guides their lives. To many people, this is not just a belief - it is a desire. They actually want to have their lives controlled and managed much the way that Truman's is in the movie.
If we are to reject his character as "demented," "disturbing," et cetera, then I think it's fair to attribute a similar characterization to such a "God," if there were one. I think the fact that most everyone is inclined to agree with Truman's choice when, at the end of the movie, Truman rejects that level of control, mirrors the reasons why we ought to reject the idea that a personal God overseeing the daily lives of human beings would somehow be a desirable or even acceptable state of existence. |
This is an interesting thought, but there are a couple of areas where I think the analogy breaks down pretty significantly. First, I don't think Harris' character is really all that similar to the "God" of popular western religions in particular because he clearly doesn't embody the "Omni-3" role, as he is neither all powerful nor all benevolent. Beyond that, I think there's a massive difference between "overseeing" and "manipulating" - Harris' character would have to be a God who cares not for his creation, but only for his own personal gain.
Effectively the only God I can really see Harris character compared to is a weak version of Spinoza's god, but even then the level of determinism required doesn't seem to jibe with the apparently free-will of Carey's character.
So while I can see some corollary between Harris' and god, whatever kind of god he's supposed to embody doesn't seem relevant to much of the world. A large part of religious belief is instilling a sense of responsibility to a higher power, and in the world of the Truman show there can be no responsibility what-so-ever. |
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| Arbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
This is an interesting thought, but there are a couple of areas where I think the analogy breaks down pretty significantly. First, I don't think Harris' character is really all that similar to the "God" of popular western religions in particular because he clearly doesn't embody the "Omni-3" role, as he is neither all powerful nor all benevolent. Beyond that, I think there's a massive difference between "overseeing" and "manipulating" - Harris' character would have to be a God who cares not for his creation, but only for his own personal gain.
Effectively the only God I can really see Harris character compared to is a weak version of Spinoza's god, but even then the level of determinism required doesn't seem to jibe with the apparently free-will of Carey's character.
So while I can see some corollary between Harris' and god, whatever kind of god he's supposed to embody doesn't seem relevant to much of the world. A large part of religious belief is instilling a sense of responsibility to a higher power, and in the world of the Truman show there can be no responsibility what-so-ever. |
It's true that the analogy is not especially strong in any strict sense -- it's really more of a symbolic comparison.
Harris' character is by no means omnipotent, but he does exercise extraordinary power over the "world" that Truman lives in -- summoning elements like fire and lightning in different attempts to dissuade Truman's efforts to leave in a way that seems somewhat allegorical to the gods of earlier religions. He isn't omniscient, but, again he does possess extraordinary knowledge of Truman's world through the however-many cameras (I recall it struck me as far too low a figure) on the island, and the information provided by the actors on the show. In both senses, he's clearly more limited than God would be, but still comparable in an abstract sense.
Benevolence is clearly a more problematic comparison, but it often appears during the movie as though he genuinely believes that his actions are in Truman's interest (even when they are pretty clearly not.) Belief in the Omni-3 God usually implies belief in some sort of objective "good" and therefore objective "benevolence" that I tend to have a problem digesting, especially in the context of the problem of evil. But I think it's fair to say, at the barest minimum, that Harris' character attempts to maintain a pretense of benevolence. And arguably, Harris' character appears more benevolent than God -- no one on Seahaven Island is stuck in abject poverty while they slowly starve to death, whereas many people under God's "care" are in the real world.
As far as the difference between overseeing and manipulating, I think that there is a bit of a more fine line than you're letting on, though I concede that again in this respect the analogy is imperfect at best. Consider a hypothetical situation where a person is going to make a bad decision, but God "inspires" them to recall a memory that helps them make a better decision instead. I don't think that's outside of the realm of religious belief, but it's arguably both overseeing and manipulating. Probably not everyone who believes in a personal god holds the same beliefs about how that God affects their life, which muddies the waters even further.
It's definitely another problem that the personal God envisioned by most believers wants to have an actual "relationship" with them and, ostensibly, wants them to be aware of his existence, whereas Harris' character aims to conceal his existence to Truman (until the very end as a final attempt to keep him from leaving.)
Despite the significant differences, though, I do think that the scenario presented is similar in enough respects to the idea of a paternalistic personal God who "knows what's best for you" that it, at the very least, raises the question of just how far we would want a "God" to go in creating a little world just for each of us where we'd be "safe" and "happy." |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
stoned.
fingering some 8 year old slut at the cinema.
really dumb from too much stoning.
all of the above.
your answer is here somewhere. |
loooooooooooooooool
you're going to meet your maker soon |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arbiter
It's true that the analogy is not especially strong in any strict sense -- it's really more of a symbolic comparison.
Harris' character is by no means omnipotent, but he does exercise extraordinary power over the "world" that Truman lives in -- summoning elements like fire and lightning in different attempts to dissuade Truman's efforts to leave in a way that seems somewhat allegorical to the gods of earlier religions. He isn't omniscient, but, again he does possess extraordinary knowledge of Truman's world through the however-many cameras (I recall it struck me as far too low a figure) on the island, and the information provided by the actors on the show. In both senses, he's clearly more limited than God would be, but still comparable in an abstract sense.
Benevolence is clearly a more problematic comparison, but it often appears during the movie as though he genuinely believes that his actions are in Truman's interest (even when they are pretty clearly not.) Belief in the Omni-3 God usually implies belief in some sort of objective "good" and therefore objective "benevolence" that I tend to have a problem digesting, especially in the context of the problem of evil. But I think it's fair to say, at the barest minimum, that Harris' character attempts to maintain a pretense of benevolence. And arguably, Harris' character appears more benevolent than God -- no one on Seahaven Island is stuck in abject poverty while they slowly starve to death, whereas many people under God's "care" are in the real world.
As far as the difference between overseeing and manipulating, I think that there is a bit of a more fine line than you're letting on, though I concede that again in this respect the analogy is imperfect at best. Consider a hypothetical situation where a person is going to make a bad decision, but God "inspires" them to recall a memory that helps them make a better decision instead. I don't think that's outside of the realm of religious belief, but it's arguably both overseeing and manipulating. Probably not everyone who believes in a personal god holds the same beliefs about how that God affects their life, which muddies the waters even further.
It's definitely another problem that the personal God envisioned by most believers wants to have an actual "relationship" with them and, ostensibly, wants them to be aware of his existence, whereas Harris' character aims to conceal his existence to Truman (until the very end as a final attempt to keep him from leaving.)
Despite the significant differences, though, I do think that the scenario presented is similar in enough respects to the idea of a paternalistic personal God who "knows what's best for you" that it, at the very least, raises the question of just how far we would want a "God" to go in creating a little world just for each of us where we'd be "safe" and "happy." |
bla bla bla.. dumb it down for us man |
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| colonelcrisp |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
stoned.
fingering some year 8 slut at the cinema.
really dumb from too much stoning.
all of the above.
your answer is here somewhere. |
I thought you were writing a haiku lol
*edit* before one of you arts majoring bastards corrects me on the fact that his post was no way in propper haiku format, eat me im an engineer not an english major...... |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by colonelcrisp
I thought you were writing a haiku lol |
haiku is 5 7 5 man
Fingering young one
really dumb from much stoning
all of the above
sushi |
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