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How to create a standard trance tune (pg. 2)
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| Aesthetic |
| actually i dont see much wrong with pho-mo's post. he's right too, no noob is just going to start innovating is he? and if he can get all the basics down quicker with pho mo's tutorial then more power to him |
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| Purpose Unknown |
| agree totally:) |
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| olwenskatha |
| well what he said, is pretty much the technical info about a dj friendly mixing song, and certainly a good theory of how to make a song, eventually you change some stuff |
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| Ray_Chappell |
| quote: | Originally posted by Project-K
Neither really, I just do my own thing and don't care much for feedback from the producer's forum - especially considering what kind of crap gets posted there on a regular basis. |
Yet, here you are.
As for the original post... I certainly agree that looking at basic structure is very helpful for people starting out. I'm working on just my second song, but doing so - I have a lot more appreciation for the basics in producing - like locking in sounds per a Derail post in a different discussion and the structure as mentioned in this discussion. I didn't interpret it to mean that this was THE standard for trance, but a building block. Good post in my opinion... thanks. |
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| lowski |
i think my biggest problem is in aranging a song properly so every sound and part kind of build from the next to keep and interesting but on piont track
by the way MrJiveBoJingles that was a ruff sample of a song. i think just the melodies threw me off but.... actually listening to it agian it sounds like a mess of sounds. hahahah :happy2:
anyway. lately i have been trying to make a set arrangment (formula) to my songs. i have the first parts down fairly solid.
this is a very standard way of arragning a trance song, so please don't critize me on it. im just trying to help out. (something i wish i had when i begin so....to thoughs it gives insight to, i wish the best of luck)
1-8 measures (kick and percs)
9-16 and a bit more percs , but nothing over powering, just enough to add to the the already existing percs.
17-24 intro of the "mid bass" (filter it in or volume automate it either way works great. also add a light snare/clap.
25-32 add a light off beat high hat (or any veriation or rythmic percussions).
29-32 slowly cut out the bass freq (this can be done by shortening the length of the kick) then add a fill on the 32 measure. also add FX swoosh or something to really push the point of the 33rd measure coming up. you want the 33 measure to really have the main vibe of the song. strength and all
*(33 is when most djs put the song fully in the mix so arrange it to be that way all the intro sounds sounds come together)
*(33)this is where the sub bass comes in and the track really starts. in this time you can add touches of a melody but mostly background sounds work well here (acid and other FM style sounds work great in this part.) depending on what you have already introduced to the song (build at a slow but steady rate), but keep in mind this is where you want to show case the strength of your drums and bass which is essential for any good song. must have a great drum and bassline!!!) (so mainly back ground sounds to keep the listener entertained)
33-(41-49)(start and intro of the tune) you can almost get away with just riding out the the bass and drums (important that your song has a strong back bone to it , because this is what really gets people dancing.) add some effects and or acid?fm lines to add depth and energy to give it that standard trance vibe.
49-65. start introducuing synths and melody. the part i alwyas found tricky about this is that you kind of need your main melody set and worked out so you can make sure all the smaller intro parts jive
into the main melody(s).
*(so in some cases , although i have heard other wise, making your leads and main parts can be best to give you a giude to the rest of your song.)
* as the 61- 64 measure builds up it is fair to us the same kind of structure/theme fill that you used at the 29-32 mark. essentaily your are trying to introduve a slice of one of the main leads (I usually go with a plucking kinda of sound) at 57 -64 i personly like to to cut out or fade the kick, bass, and percs and add a swoosh style effect to really push the point of the new melody
*next area is at the 65 measure; which kinda depends on what you have introduced already, then as i drop at 65 i cut the drums and effects such as acid and FM effects to a minimal. this is mainly because the pluck sound usually isn't a strong leader and may get lost in the background when bring it in amoung a full on group of percs and effects
73-81> ride out the intro of the pluck or whatever main melody you are trying to introduce. back ground sounds can be pulled back in from the on the 73 measure. on return they usually sound alot stronger and re-introduce depth and energy back into the song.
81-97 . i try and bring in some pads (a tease of same pads that are gonna essentaily be the breakdown pads. *( 89-96) also a drum (snare biuld up) ( which is quite genaric but alwyas effective) from 89-97 or shorter (93-97 regardless you get the point), but bassicaly you want this part to sound like it's building into something, which is just going to be a breakdown. i have tried bring up new synths in this part but alwyas found it's tough to tie all the moldies togther (melody overload is very commen in new producers, i have struggled and still do, to get past this point, which has always been one of my biggest delemas) anyway the sounds you have just built up get broken down at the 97th measure.
97 (you can add a hit/explotion, i always found a filtered down xplotions to sound best) cut the drumms competly out and fade/filter the synths down until the 113 mark (the kick and bass can still be left in at up until this this point (97-133) , but just to keep the song moving. more time then not you will find it's better to just cut out all percs, kicks and all) and bass and synths should also fade out to a very minimal level, almost stoping the track altogether (but i guess this really depends on what you have done so far and what you are about to do)
*the 113 mark should be hit with am explotion/FX of somesorts to emphisive the begining of the break down which starts with the pads being introduced.
(variation*)you can either start building your main arp/lead at this point. i usually what until the 129 mark to bring any main lead into the mix and give the pads time to resonate.
in the mean time of 113-129 i have my high/ or low freq pads fading in with either a filter or a volume. then at 121 i like to layer the pad with a higher octave sample of the already existing pad (Maybe with a slight veriation. also to keep it active i try bring back or will be fading the acid/FM sounds, or background effects
*now from this point on (129) the song can go in many directions. basiclly the way i go from here (and this is just what has been working with my style, but im sure can be complety diffrent from other producers with either more knowledge or direction) is by taking leads from what i have already introduced in the song (like the teaser meoldy from the 65 measure). and bringing it in the full rep (4 or 8 measures).
*** (side note; teasers and antisipation are huge effects in edm and essentialy guide a song, because in the end you are looking for the big pay off.)
anyway. 129- 145 you can play with bringing in the main meolidy (filtering or volume automating seems to work and feel the best for trance.
*one veriatiom which i like to do is introduce a higher octave lead (Guitar, piano, or any lead that sticks/leads the mix, the harmonies sound works well since your are really just play/spicing up what the main arp lead is.) , in a way simultating a vocal melody.. bottom line this is essentialy the "Main" lead (hook) above all (but still optional, depending on how strong your apr hook is), so you can really get creative and play a more harmonic lead in this part(hopefully that makes sense, but what i really mean is every other part in the song is kind of built on and leads into each other (melody wise) over lapping..(kinda)??? but more so working with each other and sharing similar ranges and parts. so this is the time where you can really add depth and emotion by adding the "vocalstyle" main hook (the simpler the easier for people to remember and sing along to[big part of marketing and having a memorable song, but that is a whole other topic.] the end result is even your arp that you concentrate on in the breakdown, gets spiced up by the melodies you play with the "vocalstyle lead" like i said you bassicly imate a vocal part over the main arps and meolies.
*145-161 depending on how much of the main arp lead was introdued you can either cut back and add some percs to get the song back up to and moving again or go straight for the drop (not recomended unless you drop into a simple kick and bass with the leads filtered back down and about to build uo from there.)
either way cutting the main "harmony/ vocal lead", to be re-introduced later.(really depending on what you have going on and how everything will work out). in doing this you can really have fun because any sounds that you are keeping around are really just to build up the point to the drop @ 161. (i.e. an acid or fm line can reapear and take the song into a more techy vibe before a drop or you can use the the 16 measures to just fade out/in the main synth (the most i can recomend is just to listen to your favorite trancers and try and do the same thing that fits best with the vibe and flow of the track, until you get a good idea off how to work with what you have). still at this part (145-161)can be done in many techniuqes, most im sure you know (ie. filter the main arp lead in, also you can also increase the release rate before the drop to add a nice build up and intensity effect. (which i have seen popular in todays dance music.)
* also adding reverb to the main melody seems to be a standard technique for build ups among house and minimal (which i'm not too familiar with ,but i have picked up and applied the technuqie with nice results.)
also adding drum (snare and/or kick fill+ FX (ei. swoosh) works great to add intesity to the build up. although depending on the pay off you have in the song you can judge what works best.
i think now this part the best(and really the most improtant part), basicaly you want to have built up what the listener has been waiting for up until this point, the drop !!!.
161-177. so from this part you can have everything coming together and riding out for 16 measures . slight veryations can be made with the drums like not hving the main high at come in until you have gone over the first 8-16 measures of the drop, that will give you a chance to pump up the song into full effect.
177-193 the main harmony vocal styled lead can play out.
193-225. break down the leads plan and simple. it's time for the track to get back to being the drum and bass focus that had you hooked from the begining.
225. reply from the begining of the song. (ex. 33-65, works but build down not up like you did in the 33- 65. so bassically take something out after every 8 measures. mostyle taking out melodies and percs work best, but leaving back ground sounds and fx to keep the song interesting>
* also at the 193-225 mark you can introduce a new rythmic synth just to spicen up the outro and keep it from getting bland. with the sythns i have already used through out the track i find that squares work nicely..... but thats just with my arangments.... basically you want a simple outro melody that keeps the song tied together
basicaly you should have the rest from here on out, pretty straight forward. just break the song down into the essentails. also add a swoosh at the end as the reps finish playing
hopefully that helps some out some of you getting you into prodcingbut like i siad before this isn't a "set or pro way of doing things by any sorts. it's just kindof the formula i use to build a track.
also i know my spelling is horrible so bare with me
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| EricR. |
| Great info in this thread, thanks guys. Almost all music is formulaic to a degree (just listen to nickelback if you don't believe me), and trance is no different. Nobody's saying that this is the only way to do it, and nobody's saying that you have to stick to the plan 100%. Improvise, have fun, and be creative, but in the end this is a time-tested, solid arrangement for person who is just starting out to practice on. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by EricR.
Great info in this thread, thanks guys. Almost all music is formulaic to a degree (just listen to nickelback if you don't believe me), and trance is no different. Nobody's saying that this is the only way to do it, and nobody's saying that you have to stick to the plan 100%. Improvise, have fun, and be creative, but in the end this is a time-tested, solid arrangement for person who is just starting out to practice on. |
Yeah and nickleback is such great rock. Just like tiesto makes such great trance. There are so many things wrong (and I'm not talking technically) in this thread I really don't know where to begin.
It's great analysing music to find a formula (actually really it's not when I say it out loud) but, god if there's one single thing wrong with electronic music, especially trance, at the moment, it's that it all has become so formulaic!
I love digging though my records/CD's and finding tracks that don't immediately sit well together, becuase the person writing them didn't think "when I make this tracks I will follow these basic rules so even a muppet on crack with his fisher price my-first-decks can mix it".
This thread should be titled "how to make a formulaic trance track or a track that will sound like every other producers track, just with different sounds". WTF is the "standard" trance track?
And yeah, I know you sometimes gotta know the rules to break them, but often the beauty of music is it's flaws or mistakes - you'll never get that if you beleive that formulas are there to make music for you.
Also, by listening to music you like and trying to figure out how they made that drop or build up or intro will help you a lot more in your personal musical development than reading someones else's dummies guide to e trance. |
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| G-Con |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Yeah and nickleback is such great rock. Just like tiesto makes such great trance. There are so many things wrong (and I'm not talking technically) in this thread I really don't know where to begin.
It's great analysing music to find a formula (actually really it's not when I say it out loud) but, god if there's one single thing wrong with electronic music, especially trance, at the moment, it's that it all has become so formulaic!
I love digging though my records/CD's and finding tracks that don't immediately sit well together, becuase the person writing them didn't think "when I make this tracks I will follow these basic rules so even a muppet on crack with his fisher price my-first-decks can mix it".
This thread should be titled "how to make a formulaic trance track or a track that will sound like every other producers track, just with different sounds". WTF is the "standard" trance track?
And yeah, I know you sometimes gotta know the rules to break them, but often the beauty of music is it's flaws or mistakes - you'll never get that if you beleive that formulas are there to make music for you.
Also, by listening to music you like and trying to figure out how they made that drop or build up or intro will help you a lot more in your personal musical development than reading someones else's dummies guide to e trance. |
I have to agree completely.
I am also surprised that anyone who is getting into producing would ever need a guide like this. Surely the type of people who want to start producing trance (or any genre) will be incredibly passionate about the music already, will have listened to it extensively and because of this, would already understand the basic structure. |
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| EricR. |
| quote: | Originally posted by G-Con
I have to agree completely.
I am also surprised that anyone who is getting into producing would ever need a guide like this. Surely the type of people who want to start producing trance (or any genre) will be incredibly passionate about the music already, will have listened to it extensively and because of this, would already understand the basic structure. |
I disagree. I'm passionate about classical music however, even with an above average knowledge of the basics, I woul still have no idea on how to go about piecing together an orchestral composition. Take this thread for what it's worth. Nobody's saying this is the end-all, be-all of trance composition, rather a good starting point for some of the newer producers in our community. |
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| Eldritch |
What are those four tunes? Just curious. |
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