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Difference Between Hardware/Software Synth? (pg. 3)
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| Purpose Unknown |
| quote: | | right remember when you were a kid and your parents gave you those playskool plastic toys, like a hammer and a saw? then later in life you got the real thing and realized how much damage they could really do? |
Ha ha excellent +1:gsmile:
Interesting observation on the cable thing. I had to spend an extra £125 on interconnects between my cd player and amp to correct a slight overemphsis on a siblant sound that affected subtle choral music. My system cost £5000+, inc the speakers! cables bt the speakers and amp damped the sound too much. I had to spend hours testing cables, interconects and speakers to get the right sound, primarily for certain piano concertos. For other types of classical music I need a different set up. It goes on and on.
Interesting thread and as im about to buy my first hardware synth its a subject close to my heart atm.:) |
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| celestial thug |
software, because software can be pirated. At some point it will dawn on the vendours ,hard aswell as software producers that their pricing is insane, and that nobody is going to pay for it when copy technology is avaible.
same thing happened with the printing press back then. Why pay enormous amounts for a book, because it apprently is "teh special" when you can get it from another guy with technology to copy at less than half the cost.
obviously people should earn money if thats their target in life, and they are going to make a whole lot more through realistic pricing than some imagined bull boheme elitism
. evidence...i OWN a lot of synths that cost me a around or the same as 100$, and i pirate the rest! Its a source of sound, get over it. |
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| aquila |
| quote: | Originally posted by celestial thug
i OWN a lot of synths that cost me a around or the same as 100$, and i pirate the rest! Its a source of sound, get over it. |
+1 |
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| derail |
Rinster, yes, you can see all the notes on the piano roll in the MIDI track for each part. You can set the MIDI track to record the input, then the notes will appear as you play. Or you have an existing MIDI part, then you send that out to the hardware synth, then record the resulting audio. So generally each part has a MIDI track and Audio track.
You can also control all or most of the synth's parameters with the CC messages that also get sent with the MIDI track. That allows you to automate things like the synth's filters. |
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| Rinster |
| quote: | Originally posted by derail
Rinster, yes, you can see all the notes on the piano roll in the MIDI track for each part. You can set the MIDI track to record the input, then the notes will appear as you play. Or you have an existing MIDI part, then you send that out to the hardware synth, then record the resulting audio. So generally each part has a MIDI track and Audio track.
You can also control all or most of the synth's parameters with the CC messages that also get sent with the MIDI track. That allows you to automate things like the synth's filters. |
how do you import the notes back into the hardware synth if you have to rework a part of the melody? |
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| derail |
Regarding the price of software, not every piece of software is equally complex. Some software synths have a small team of people working on them, some have much larger teams working on them. You won't find every synth being able to be made available for $100. These people have to earn their money, pay their bills, just like the rest of us. I'm sure their marketing department has run the figures and worked out the best pricepoint for their synth. It's wrong to think that, if a $300 piece of software were dropped to $100, then 3 times as many people would buy it. A large percentage of people would still just pirate it. Heck, there are pirate copies of $20 programs out there. Some people just won't pay, even if it's great software, even if they use it every week. So these companies work out the size of the market for those people willing to support the tools they develop and the price point which will allow them to make a living.
Yes, if masses of people started buying and not pirating the $100 pieces of software, then the numbers would start adding up for these companies and they could drop their prices. But as long as people are pirating $20 programs, that's not going to happen. |
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| derail |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rinster
how do you import the notes back into the hardware synth if you have to rework a part of the melody? |
You have the whole MIDI part on the MIDI track. That has all the information, which notes are played when, for how long, their velocities, as well as all the parameter information. To rework a part of the melody, you can edit the notes in the MIDI file (usually viewed as a piano roll). Then just hit play, enable record on the synth's incoming audio track and it'll record the changed version.
So:
MIDI track - sent to synth via MIDI cable. This sends the notes to the synth.
Synth has cable(s) running from it's audio outputs, into the soundcard/ sound interface (or via USB, on some newer synths)
Audio track - receives the sound from the soundcard/ sound interface. This records the sound from the synth. |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rinster
how do you import the notes back into the hardware synth if you have to rework a part of the melody? |
man, you really do ask the most bizzare questions lol. DO SOME RESEARCH!
99% of synths don't have a sequencer in them. the notes don't get stored in the synth, they are just spewed out from the computer and the synth plays them. |
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| celestial thug |
| quote: | Originally posted by derail
Regarding the price of software, not every piece of software is equally complex. |
same working principles, the rest is bells and whistles that doesnt require:
| quote: | | larger teams working on them. |
that is just a symptom of capitalism as a system. Bigorexia, if it can grow, let it, even if all it will do is to put larger price tags on the final product.
| quote: | | You won't find every synth being able to be made available for $100. |
but -the best- are, because they are the work of passionate geeks, loves labour, who are happy if they make money, but just as happy if people just use whatever they do to make music with.
| quote: | | These people have to earn their money, pay their bills, just like the rest of us. I'm sure their marketing department has run the figures and worked out the best pricepoint for their synth. |
nope it is the direct result of "hardware" (over)pricing. Nothing else. NOTHING else. as in nothing at all, zero, nada, null, not a thing.
| quote: | | It's wrong to think that, if a $300 piece of software were dropped to $100, then 3 times as many people would buy it. |
no it isnt, and the evidence is in the pudding. For years people stole 3dmax (now descreet) and equally expensive programs, and suddenly it dawned on the producers that those who became proffesional and loyal costumers used to be the theifes stealing. were else would they have learned creativity with their tools? school? lol! So now they are giving it away for free, no cost, you just have to promise that you WILL pay them if you go pro, and start to use their tools to make money.
so perhaps even more than 3 times would be interrested in such an arrangement wich could draw in even joeschmoe who are superficially interrested in music but not to the point were he will cash out even 100 to find out.
| quote: | | A large percentage of people would still just pirate it. Heck, there are pirate copies of $20 programs out there. Some people just won't pay, even if it's great software, even if they use it every week. |
true, but they are not a majority. Most people like to be on the "fair" side of things, if it is possible whilke still maintaining their own selfinterrests.
| quote: | | Yes, if masses of people started buying and not pirating the $100 pieces of software, then the numbers would start adding up for these companies and they could drop their prices. But as long as people are pirating $20 programs, that's not going to happen. |
what came first, the unreasonable price or the pirate? |
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| derail |
| I'm not going to get drawn into a debate on this topic. You obviously have a very firm justification in your mind as to why you pirate software. It won't matter what I say at this stage. |
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| celestial thug |
yeah i do it because I can
and sh!ts even good for the environtment
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| B_man |
| quote: | Originally posted by celestial thug
same working principles, the rest is bells and whistles that doesnt require: [(large teams)]
that is just a symptom of capitalism as a system. Bigorexia, if it can grow, let it, even if all it will do is to put larger price tags on the final product.
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It's called 'opportunity' and it will prey on the consumers every day and vice-versa. Still doesn't justify breaking the law, but it doesn't justify out-or-proportion prices in comparison to the market values of the time. Yes, you've got a Catch-22, but it doesn't make sense with your next argument:
| quote: | | Originally posted by celestial thug but -the best- are, because they are the work of passionate geeks, loves labour, who are happy if they make money, but just as happy if people just use whatever they do to make music with. |
If the best software you use is freeware -- why do you resort to pirating for software that you feel is not best? Then just leave it! Personally, I paid over $100.00 for my favorite software synths and I am a contented user with them.
| quote: | | Originally posted by celestial thug nope it is the direct result of "hardware" (over)pricing. Nothing else. NOTHING else. as in nothing at all, zero, nada, null, not a thing. |
Hardware (over)pricing? You gotta be kidding me. The most expensive synthesizer I own is the Roland JP-8080... hard or soft. Personally, soft-synths are a pretty damn good deal, price-wise. If I bought the firmware/software that the JP-8080 uses because I have some black box that can emulate any VA-synth, I imagine I would still pay a fraction of the cost -- not sure what cost, but it would cost me something. WHy? Because Roland is a for-profit organization. That's right, Roland is paid to create instruments that you are too busy with your own day-job to create. So is Native-Instruments, so is Linplug, etc. If it is not about the cost of material-components to create a hard-synth, it is about a SERVICE to mastermind and program those components.
| quote: | | Originally posted by celestial thug no it isnt, and the evidence is in the pudding. For years people stole 3dmax (now descreet) and equally expensive programs, and suddenly it dawned on the producers that those who became proffesional and loyal costumers used to be the theifes stealing. were else would they have learned creativity with their tools? school? lol! So now they are giving it away for free, no cost, you just have to promise that you WILL pay them if you go pro, and start to use their tools to make money. |
Those same idiots who stole 3dmax could have saved themselves the trouble by getting a damn job and buying the software they use. 3dsmax still requires a promise for a consumer to pay -- why... because without Autodesk's day-jobs there would be no 3dsmax. Are they making too much money on it? Sure... So does everyone who goes into debt for college to delay gratification before they enter a profitable form of employment to create the goods that you steal. That means all the programmers, managers, IT-staff, graphic-designers, and other corporate rats who run Autodesk.
If a person cannot be making money with their use of 3Dmax, then they should not pirate it. Get a job or go into debt... then use 3Dmax until you can sell your models enough to get your money's worth -- since you are so desperate to make a career out of it. Personally, I'd buy 3Dmax for artsy-hobby-purposes only... but I haven't the time to invest in that hobby, so I'm saving my cash since I could not afford it anyways.
| quote: | | Originally posted by celestial thug so perhaps even more than 3 times would be interrested in such an arrangement wich could draw in even joeschmoe who are superficially interrested in music but not to the point were he will cash out even 100 to find out. |
And what justifies this pragmatic approach? There is so much freeware (in your words: better) tools out their that 'joeschmoe' can just as easily rely on a bunch of open-source tools to find out that he can't write techno music as well as Tiesto in a mere two weeks. You can fork out a mere $50.00 on FLStudio-watered-down-version to find out more fully how much 'joeschmoe' sucks before he pirates non-open-source platforms to determine the same result, squared (with decent synthesizer presents to cover-up SOME of the badness).
It's also a hell-of-a-lot better than buying hardware (God forbid) and discovering that sad reality. Joeschmoe would have to rob local stores in order to make that kind of a transaction before he, God-forbid, gets a job at the local mustache factory.
| quote: | | Originally posted by celestial thug true, but they are not a majority. Most people like to be on the "fair" side of things, if it is possible whilke still maintaining their own selfinterrests. |
I think you have bought into the myth that most people are basically good. If people can get away with something, they will. The decline of civilizations, including mine, throughout history can prove the devil inside all of us.
| quote: | Originally posted by celestial thug
what came first, the unreasonable price or the pirate? |
Bub, it something it too expensive in your personal opinion, then don't buy it and pirating it is pathetic. Use your '-the best-' open-source materials. THeres nothing wrong with that... for instance, I'd go Linux before I am forced to upgrade to Windows Vista. |
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