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College: biggest rip-off. Farking true! Fark college! (pg. 4)
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by whiskers
Right, it's computer SCIENCE. There are a few colleges out there that will give you a Software Engineering degree, but computer science is all about theory and giving you a background and an ability to solve problems on your own. I think much of it is BS busywork, but... people forget that college is not trade school, it's supposed to make you learn, learn to think, learn to figure things out. It's going to teach you how to learn to catch fish. As much as I feel that I don't get to use my knowledge while in school, I still think it's better than sitting through hours and hours of learning how to program in C++, Python, Java, or whatever the hell the hot language of the week is. |
I can't tell you how many times I saw no use for a degree in the computer field. The only education that is useful is Cisco, Novell, MCSE, BS in EE or Software Engineering. Other than that, a degree is useless. Has no application to the industry otherwise. Well, unless, you are someone who has gotten into the computer field for the money and have no passion in it. |
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| Trancealot |
Can anyone answer this.
Here is the scenerio: My Background is HS diploma and self teach books and desire to know code meaning no college at all.
Let's say I learn code really well at one point like C++, Java, HTML,etc. those skills can be used to get a well qaulified job? |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trancealot
Can anyone answer this.
Here is the scenario: My Background is HS diploma and self teach books and desire to know code meaning no college at all.
Let's say I learn code really well at one point like C++, Java, HTML,etc. those skills can be used to get a well qualified job? |
They can be, but you need to build a very functional, and useful program as a way to show off your skills. |
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| Trancealot |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
They can be, but you need to build a very functional, and useful program as a way to show off your skills. |
I think someone who went to college who knows as much code the same as a kid who did not go to college still has a slight advantage.
my theory:
he was taught many different things other than code all day and night. Those other skills are what help you in many situation that will arise in the work place(reasearch, professionalism,etc..). If a non college coder runs into a situation without preperation then he will be up a creek without a paddle.
Only way that theory would be broken is if the kid who goes to college just basically lives off his parents and does not care and cheats his way through college. In the end he won't get far. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trancealot
I think someone who went to college who knows as much code the same as a kid who did not go to college still has a slight advantage.
my theory:
he was taught many different things other than code all day and night. Those other skills are what help you in many situation that will arise in thw work place. If a non college coder runs into a situation without preperation then he will be up a creek without a paddle.
Only way that theory would be broken is if the kid who goes to college just basically lives off his parents and does not care and cheats his way through college. In the end he won't get far. |
Oh I don't disagree. He has an advantage cause he has a piece of paper. That doesn't mean that he has learned anything in college really. You must be a very good coder to be able to succeed without a college education though. You learn a ton of techniques in college from different professors. You also learn good code structure. |
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| tubby |
| the college taught programmer may not know more or be any better, but you can be sure they'll get a lot more interviews when applying for jobs, simply because it's one extra criteria that they can tick for recruitment agents. |
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| silene |
Next fall will be my 4th year in Computer Science and I love it. While some general-purpose first-year classes had hundreds of students with little to no personal contact with the professor, second and third year classes were much smaller and more intimate. The class structure itself isn't' without fault; some profs just don't give a about teaching or what sort of impact the class will have on their students. I failed my first class this semester - the subject was web programming, and the class made an effort to cover all aspects of this topic with an emphasis on evolving technology. I didn't put in the due effort and, knowing I would fail, skipped the final. Others who did put in the effort left claiming that the scope was way too broad, and the information presented could have been better learned from wikipedia (lots of theory that skimmed the surface of its subject; entirely useless).
I do like university itself. I never held the belief that higher education will guarantee a meal ticket; instead, I see value in acquiring a certain mental autonomy and learning to think in a way that creates a potential for deviating from a set thought and discovering something new. Not everyone has the potential to derive such a benefit, but if undergrad education was structured better, it is certain that more would do so. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by silene
I never held the belief that higher education will guarantee a meal ticket; instead, I see value in acquiring a certain mental autonomy and learning to think in a way that creates a potential for deviating from a set thought and discovering something new. Not everyone has the potential to derive such a benefit, but if undergrad education was structured better, it is certain that more would do so. |
Precisely how I think. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
That is what *education* is really about: seeing things from new perspectives, considering new ideas, stepping outside whatever prejudices parents or church or whomever tried to imprint onto you.
Everything else is just training. |
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| silene |
| quote: | Originally posted by tubby
the college taught programmer may not know more or be any better, but you can be sure they'll get a lot more interviews when applying for jobs, simply because it's one extra criteria that they can tick for recruitment agents. |
Definitely. I got a great-paying contract job for half the summer, and the interesting thing is that the qualification process was very vague. I technically do not have the required experience to do it, but I got in because of my education (even though I don't yet have a degree).
Dunno how frequently this would happen :p |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
That is what *education* is really about : seeing things from new perspectives, considering new ideas, stepping outside whatever prejudices parents or church or whomever tried to imprint onto you.
Everything else is just training. |
I am open to these things without the need for school. I really enjoy hearing other peoples ways of thinking, approaching things, etc. |
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| emc^2 |
if college needs to teach you how to think you got bigger issues than finding a job. I think that each human being is capable of thinking without someone else exclaiming "aha! aha! now you gettin' it!".
Sorry, this level of self-affirmation is crap. You're either smart enough to be successful or you take whatever comes your way.
Case and point - three of the most brilliant guys I know are totally inept at selling their skills. Each one is levels above me in just about every area - knowledge, ability to solve problems effectively, creative, tallented, etc. However, NONE OF THEM are on the same pay level as I (if we use position and compensation as a measurement of certain corporate success). I understand that paycheck alone does not determine personal success - but I figure if you're smart, why not get paid for it? I've tried and pushed and did whatever I could to help them along but somehow they managed to screw something up, while being perfectly qualified for the position.
I'm now basically walking one of my friends into my old job, having to negotiate his salary, convincing the manager that he's making the right choice for which he will be thanking me later, convincing the company they need to pay him the money I think he should be paid, and convincing my friend that leaving his current dead-end, braindead job would not be a such a bad idea.
so... with that said, my point is that you don't have to be college educated to be successful or taught how to think (in majority of cases). Moreover, I find that most of the managers (at least in the IT world) are willing to overlook college degree in favor of experience. I've been in the field for close to 15 years and have yet to have been turned down for a job because I don't have a college degree.
:cool: |
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