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Serious Inquiry About Music Education ! (pg. 2)
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| Axer |
| quote: | Originally posted by lücid
you'd probably be better off asking in DJ Booth or the Music Production forum. if you'd like i can move this thread there for you. |
Yes, Please & Thanks lucid :) |
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| Ray_Chappell |
| quote: | Originally posted by Axer
*points noted*
that's useful information. I believe I can do a lot more with a proper education. |
You got that out of the above posts?!? At the end of the day you don't need a degree to make a career out of anything. It doesn't hurt, but it doesn't guarantee . I work in a world dominated by mba's (obviously not music) and didn't finish high school. It's partly how good you are at it naturally, partly who you know, and partly how hard you work. I'm getting a degree now - but it is really a formality. Why not, my work is paying for it all. Turning a hobby into a career usually results in disaster - think of all the bedroom producers, amateur historians, podcasters, bloggers, saturday evening philosophers at the pub, monday morning sports commentators, and hookers in Hollywood. I would focus on networking - it's proven to be more valuable than education more times than I can count. In the music industry that's more relevant than any other.
Edit: that's not to say don't do it, just be realistic about expectations, honest with yourself on what the education will provide, and understand that school is a VERY expensive self-discovery method. People do make it, just don't assume school will be the deal breaker. |
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| Kevy Kev |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jake Benson
I'm not sure that going to college would necessarily help you break into the music industry. But if you decide to go, make sure it's one that actually HELPS you by connecting you to the industry itself (instead of "teaching" you and having NO connections to the industry whatsoever like SAE institute in LA). Also if possible try to take courses that helps you gain a better understanding of law, distribution, publishing, marketing, etc., of music so that once you get a track finished you know how to generate revenue. |
Would you say the Los Angeles recording school would be better for networking and such?
I'm currently getting ready to enroll in the SAE here in LA. |
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| Axer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ray_Chappell
You got that out of the above posts?!? At the end of the day you don't need a degree to make a career out of anything. It doesn't hurt, but it doesn't guarantee . I work in a world dominated by mba's (obviously not music) and didn't finish high school. It's partly how good you are at it naturally, partly who you know, and partly how hard you work. I'm getting a degree now - but it is really a formality. Why not, my work is paying for it all. Turning a hobby into a career usually results in disaster - think of all the bedroom producers, amateur historians, podcasters, bloggers, saturday evening philosophers at the pub, monday morning sports commentators, and hookers in Hollywood. I would focus on networking - it's proven to be more valuable than education more times than I can count. In the music industry that's more relevant than any other.
Edit: that's not to say don't do it, just be realistic about expectations, honest with yourself on what the education will provide, and understand that school is a VERY expensive self-discovery method. People do make it, just don't assume school will be the deal breaker. |
I understand what you're saying. That's really cool that your getting paid for your school. I don't have that support and I don't expect any one would do that for me, no matter how hard I work for them. I've been networking for the last few years and I know some people who can get me start working if I make demos. Matter of fact I worked at a local bar and those were the best nights of my life. It's obvious to get into anything when you're familiar with any industry. It can be easier when someone pulls into it and I don't have that 'concerned' connection yet. I'm still trying to do figure things on my own and discovering more depth about my production every time. Thing is I don't see a limit with electronic music, but I also just don't want my music to limit to electronic either. I can play a guitar in the subway, feed myself for a day, Wouldn't you consider as a hobby turned into career? Instead, I want to play with them and feature them on my production. Things can happen! I do have a more better intentions unlike some individuals in the industry. Just speaking my mind. I wouldn't mind transferring to a different country or into a different school though.
My main purpose is to learn the art, everythings is secondary. Let's just not draw a line here. LOL
What's SAE? |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by Axer
Can I make a living out of it? |
Most people I know working in the music industry have to supplement their salary by working in music shops or doing tuition. Even then, they make really crap money. The only person I know doing OK for themselves is a guy working for one of the biggest record labels in the world (I won't say which) as a producer/engineer. His salary is only just slightly above the national average. To live comfortably, I would want to be earning at least 50% more than this.
| quote: | Originally posted by Axer
What my career options would be like? |
As a producer, you certainly won't earn any money making music you like. In this case, you better start liking pop and rock music, because it is really the only genre you might be able to sustain yourself on as a producer/engineer.
There are other sectors of the music industry though, like live audio, movies, mastering, etc. I think it's all pretty crap though (career-wise) to be honest. I would much prefer my accounting degree. :p |
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| Kevy Kev |
I bartend here in Los Angeles and get to talk to quite a few people in the music business. Some of them hate it but most love it and from what I gather they get paid pretty damn well.
What I am planning on trying to do is fix my credit, get loans go back to school at SAE LA and then ??? Profit I hope :)
I don't care much for the production side of rock and hip hop I'm more interested in the mastering process along with taking what I've learned along the way and working on my side projects which would be producing EDM. |
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| Axer |
| quote: | Originally posted by ********
Do it. College / University girls are about as hot as the come the only way you could see more is if you were a DJ in some slutly club.
If you can get in do University of California's Berkeley
Center for New Music and Audio Technologies (CNMAT)
http://cnmat.berkeley.edu/
IMO is the best in the world. But any local music program will give you something special - In Ontario for instnace I've heard praise for both Ryersan's Media program, as well as Canadore Colleges Broadcasting and Conastoga Colleges - while Schools all around have solid music programs, with RCM instructors who will teach you music theory and performance.
Higher education not only offers you a degree specialization but also give you exposure to other subject areas, allowing you to explore other interests.
It really is a quesiton do you feel like paying to learn or would you rather spend your money on hoookers music boxes and tracks, and uhm drugs.
Also I hear University of Florida has an interesting media program.
None the less there are tons of great schools out there.. like tons.. and school ain't all about learning but also networking, building spirit and community and having a great time with your time and others around you.. plus C/U students like to have a good time and the many clubs and other stuff that is available undoubtedly will enrich your experience... plus you may along side get percs like gym access library studio access and wonderful other things which otherwise might be outside your normal realm of activity..
I highly recommend this unless you'd rather have sex with a medium price hooker once a month for your dollar value.
Chances are they are a C/U student!!
Can I hear some of your music?
Having a degree can open up your carear potentials especially if you plan to work for someone else who can use your abilities - or you can make use of your social networks and abilities in being a sole proprietor or operating with others to produce music for media such as television or even movies.
I'm not a graduate but I've read a little about some. |
Man, thanks for the motivational kind words! Just added a lot to my almost fading lines of hope. C/U parties would be hot with all the chicks in it, I can imagine already LOL Broadcasting and Music Theory sounds really interesting. I can totally smooth things out with and to a certain degree for listeners. I'd call a hooker a sex worker still. ahahaha some say it's all about the catchy hook! After reading your post, I'm positive that I'm going for it! Nothing to lose anymore! I already have a bunch of cool kids in the Toronto Nightlife. Making music for films, movies and commercial would be extra cash I hope! Who know maybe a Soundtrack! LOL I wanna go to a school which a swimming pool! It'd be awesome to graduate with all the fellow musician class mates and all the friends I'll make over the years, who'll turn out to be in my party buddies, singers, promoters, bartenders, security and drinking buddies and what not! I can only imagine a party, a party like that, where you know everyone! IN EXCITED ALREADY! Running out of words here... You're a wise man! What do you do?
@ echosystem Where is all these coming from? What I'm trying to relate here is true? Who are these people? What do they want from me? Help me out here!
@ Key Kev How is Bartending in LA like? That would be some cool links! Yeah, I have a credit problem too but I'm getting over it. Sometimes I spend more than I earn. Almost paid of my loans for my equipments, hoping to pay off the school loans. Hey! Who knows, maybe we'll collaborate sometime.
I don't wanna specify any genre at this moment, let just keep it to 'One Music' :)
You can definetly listen to my production or add me on www.myspace.com/axerouf and this is my production website www.reverbnation.com/axerrouf . All tracks are built from scratch. :)
Excuse me all, I'm not bashing anyone when I'm quoting, all you're views are very important in this little thread of mine!
Keep em commmin guys, loving it!
*rolls into bed* |
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| jupiterone |
berklee school of music in MA is one of the best. i heard SAE was good and mediocre (i was going to go there until i realized you can probably do the same thing on your own)
| quote: | Originally posted by Axer
Will it be worthy? |
depends on how you apply yourself after you graduate. anyone can learn the things you can learn getting a degree in recording or production. even then, the chance of getting a job at a studio being a recording engineer are extremely slim and require years of intern work both in a studio for free and recording other peoples work either for free or for pennies. even then, it's an up hill struggle.
| quote: | Originally posted by Axer
Can I make a living out of it? |
yes. but good luck getting to that point. i'm not saying it's impossible, whoever does say it's impossible is an idiot. neither am i saying you won't make it, but once you realize how much work is involved in getting your name out to the right people and acquiring the right contacts you'll wish you never spent the money on that degree.
| quote: | Originally posted by Axer
What my career options would be like? |
you'll be on your own doing some commonly pointless intern work. the digital age has cut the need for recording engineers since people can do just about all they want/need for free, on their own at home, on their laptops. technology effing sucks.
i'm not trying to talk you down from it because of jealousy or whatever, it's just difficult these days. lots of studios are going out of business, the industry isn't tip-top shape and they surely aren't taking in the cash they once were. as rjt said, be ready to suck dick and pretend to love the people you hate just so you can get a couple bucks/a few contacts. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Axer
...I'm already a producer rather than a disk jockey... |
Yes, but are you a musician? I mean, do you actually have formal training in one or more instruments, can you read music, do you know how many sharps there are in an F# minor scale, how to keep time in 7/8, etc.? I'm assuming the answer is no or you would have mentioned it. So, it's time for a serious reality check. No offense, but it honestly sounds like you have no freaking clue what is involved in obtaining a music degree. You don't just waltz right into a "good college" and sign up for music courses and then start DJing at clubs and getting it on with the chicks at the parties, then graduate and start making millions of dollars. You have to audition and pass competency/skill exams to even get accepted into a decent program and, for the "good colleges" that you are inquiring about, the competition is fierce. You will be competing against top-notch performers who have playing since they were old enough to talk (or even earlier). If by some chance you do get into a college (likely a JC), you'll still be years behind your classmates (read: competitors for the high $$$$ jobs that you seek who also couldn't get into a 4-yr program). Berklee? - Yeah, right. Your chances of getting into Berklee with no formal musical training is zero.
BTW, I've been a musician for my entire life (let's just say I'm old)and my first degree was a BA in Music Theory. I finished my degree with a perfect 4.0 GPA in my core music courses and I play numerous instruments (e.g., bass, keys, trumpet, guitar, etc.). Even with those credentials, the market for music jobs was so bad at the time (early 90s) that I couldn't find a career in music and ended up going back to college for a BS and MS in Aquatic Sciences. Now, I have an excelllent job as a scientist that affords me my expensive hobby. Also, out of all my dozens of friends and former bandmates who also went on to finish their music degrees, only one has a job in the music industry and he's a sales guy at a music store. My point here isn't to brag, but to get this point across: getting a music degree does not guarantee you anything in the music industry.
If you're good at what you do and market yourself well, you can be very successful with or without a music degree. The problem nowadays is that so many people pick up a cracked copy of FLS, make a trance song that doesn't completely suck, and become totally delusional as to their musical skills. That's great if you're just posting your songs on forums/myspace and sending your tracks to labels to make little/no money, but it's a much bigger deal when you start betting 4 years of your life on it.
One last consideration is this: do you really want your hobby to become your job? Give that some serious thought, because for many people, once their hobby becomes a 40-50 hr/wk job (and most likely at a very low income), you can lose your passion for it pretty quickly. That doesn't happen to everybody, but it happens to a LOT of people, especially in the performing arts.
I hope this didn't come across as too harsh or too discouraging, but you certainly shouldn't go into this with blindfolds on and you seem to have a very idealistic sense of how easy (not)it is to become successful in the music industry. Make an appointment with a prof, career counselor, or entrance rep at a nearby university or even JC and start finding out where you fit in the overall scheme and what your chances are of getting in. Ask yourself if a degree in music is even going to get you where you want to be, keeping in mind that most of the artists that you listen to don't have degrees in music and many are self-taught. Maybe you'll find that a better option for you would be to pursue a degree in something with a higher probability of getting you a good paying job that you don't hate, and take music courses as electives to improve your skills. HTH. |
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| MOK |
I think yall are understating how potentially little a music degree can get someone. In the music industry, like so many others, potential employers and revenue sources are concerned primarily with
1) experience and
2) results.
College has nothing to do with either of those. If you want to make a career out of music, college is not the best thing you could do for yourself, not by a long shot. Collaboration with varying styles of music, personal networking, and looking for potential business angles via organizing musicians is a more likely and proven avenue.... And even those are tenuous. Generally, there is no money in the music industry, and no one hires. As an electronic musician, showing someone a sheepskin is essentially a non sequitur: No one knows why you brought it up, and no one cares. They're only interested in your results, which a degree will not improve.
Given your situation, you'll be more likely to see the best results by establishing yourself first, and doing everything you can do right now, without training. At least do solid work on your own. Once you've found that you can secure an income within music, then going to school to reinforce people's faith in your results(for those who care, at least).
If you're so hot on an education, try what I do: Check craigslist for a music theory teacher, and then read lots and lots of audio related material. Fill your head with knowledge on your own. You don't need a college to learn.
Cryophonik: Since when does knowing music theory determine whether one is a musician, or has the right to call themselves one? That's just silliness. Especially in electronic music.
Don't misconstrue my statement as devaluing music theory: I am taking lessons currently. But it has nothing, NOTHING, to do with whether or not one is a musician. |
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| Vortex_SA |
| quote: | Originally posted by MOK
Cryophonik: Since when does knowing music theory determine whether one is a musician, or has the right to call themselves one? That's just silliness. Especially in electronic music.
Don't misconstrue my statement as devaluing music theory: I am taking lessons currently. But it has nothing, NOTHING, to do with whether or not one is a musician. |
I agree that the boundaries has been broken in these modern time were in, defining yourself a "musician" is quite personal, but i think the major point is that you need to show performing skills and basic theory knowledge to get into these school...
and i reccomend everyone to just take a lesson a week on an instrument of your choice, it will teach you theory and technical skills, as well as expose you to different music styles and ages... ive done it for 8 yrs. on french-horn (and on the side i played trumpet as well), and now im currently been self-taught on guitar for 3 yrs now... its a gr8 fun to actually play something... |
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| ASFSE |
| get a good private instructor, piano and theory, that's all you need. and like some other nigs said network through your local scene to get experience, which is what counts the most when looking for a gig. |
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