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Fears grow that Obama can't win (pg. 2)
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
I totally disagree. I think the USA has largely moved past the racist age. All the old prejudices are dying out with the 60+ crowd. They won't be around much longer.
I see no racism at all in my day to day life, and I live in one of the most historically "redneck" states, Kentucky. People of all colors and backgrounds get along perfectly well. I see blacks and whites eating at the same tables in restaurants, going to sporting events together, and obviously working together, etc. There is very little racial animosity left in 2008 America. |
Gah....dood, I don't even live in the States and know that's not true...
That's not to say that some areas aren't better than others but the kumbya circle broke up decades ago... |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
It's not a class problem, or a race problem, or anything ridiculous like that. It's a geographic problem with Appalachia. If you need more proof look at the district breakdown of voting in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Virginia. Obama won the white vote in Cleveland and Philadelphia... but did not in the Appalachian counties in either state. |
come on, that's ridiculous. It is a class problem. Appalachia has a large white uneducated population where the people border the parties. Find that demographic elsewhere and you will see the same trend. people don't vote for a specific presidential candidate because they live in a particular location. the people of a particular location tend to vote for the same presidential candidate because they tend to share the same economic status, values, religion, etc... You take a person out of west virginia and move him into philly he isn't going to decide to vote for obama because now he is out of appalachia. The reason you think its an appalachia problem is actually because a specific demographic that doesn't vote for obama is concentrated in appalachia (specifically uneducated-lower-income-white-moderate-democrats - which i have been saying for months). However, similar people are surely located throughout the country. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by HardTranceProd
For s sake it's not about racism. I went to great pains to point this out in my original post. It's about being known and trusted + McCain being suitably moderate for most people. |
just because you pointed that out doesn't mean others don't see it as a race issue. I think it is a race issue with lower-income white moderate-democrats. |
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| Zild |
| There is most definitely a race issue here. For every person who I've heard say they won't vote for Obama because he is a '******' (excuse my language but it is necessary to convey the reality of the situation) imagine how many people think that but keep it to themselves in order to appear politically correct. |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by mndeg
i think you're confusing political correctness with non-racist. |
So true. What's even more interesting and ironic is how being politically incorrect can result in accusations of racism. |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
So true. What's even more interesting and ironic is how being politically incorrect can result in accusations of racism. |
You are a racist!
;) |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
You are a racist!
;) |
Yes, I do truly despise the human race at times because that's how much it sickens me [on occasion] ;).
EDIT: If I was God, I'd create nations of advanced dogs because they're the coolest mammalian creatures ever. Us humans are ape crazy and can be complete s to one another. |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Yes, I do truly despise the human race at times because that's how much it sickens me [on occasion] ;). |
I was thinking the same thing when I was at HEB today......
:D |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
I was thinking the same thing when I was at HEB today......
:D |
You know what that means... we'd make excellent PITA activists! the human race, we want animal rights you punks! , give them their own soverign state for crying out loud. the Jew and the (Palestinian) Arabs, the animals were there first! :p |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by mndeg
really? because it seemed like the southern "white trash" regions voted for clinton. |
Obama won Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina. Some base for Clinton. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
come on, that's ridiculous. It is a class problem. Appalachia has a large white uneducated population where the people border the parties. Find that demographic elsewhere and you will see the same trend. people don't vote for a specific presidential candidate because they live in a particular location. the people of a particular location tend to vote for the same presidential candidate because they tend to share the same economic status, values, religion, etc... You take a person out of west virginia and move him into philly he isn't going to decide to vote for obama because now he is out of appalachia. The reason you think its an appalachia problem is actually because a specific demographic that doesn't vote for obama is concentrated in appalachia (specifically uneducated-lower-income-white-moderate-democrats - which i have been saying for months). However, similar people are surely located throughout the country. |
Did you bother to read the articles I posted? Take a look at how Obama did among lower-to-middle class white folk in Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Oregon, Colorado, Texas, etc.
Particular locations carry particular cultural histories.
| quote: | More on Appalachia (and Obama)
avatar
By Donald Weightman - May 15, 2008, 9:40AM
I'm glad to see discussions about Appalachia and the Scotch-Irish anti-Obama voting patterns, partly because I think it's an issue the Obama campaign needs to deal with, partly because I've written about it elsewhere (in Ta-Nehisi Coates's blog) and partly because it's really interesting.
Here's more. The Appalachian back-country sees political leadership as personal. Think Andrew Jackson. I think this means that political campaigning is about presence. You have to be there. Hillary was there; Obama was not, barely seen in W.Va. last week. Personal style matters, and Obama's suit and tie didn't help him in an anti-aristocratic political culture.
Intense identification also means that politics is also about loyalty. Once you sign up with a leader, you stay signed up. Hillary wins on this one too, riding in on her husband's name and history. Too bad for Obama.
Loyalty means no dissent, and a politics of political change, brought in by an outsider, gets little reception.
Obama has been swimming upstream in more subtle ways. Appalachia is an oral culture, built on ballads and folktales transmitted from generation to generation. I would think that this would disfavor ads, and favor speeches and face-time. Guess who did which?
It's harder to introduce new messages into such a political environment, especially when the messages, Obama's messages, are universal inclusion -- as opposed to the clannish local society -- and solidarity -- as opposed to the local libertarianism.
Finally, we're talking not only low educational levels brought in with immigration (in parts of Scotland there were few schools at all, going back to before the 18th century). We're talking about a culture where schoolmasters literally had to fight their way into the classrooms to teach. The custom was called "barring out": to get some time off, students would block the teachers from the school doors. Little sympathy here for the visibly larned Obama.
McCain -- "maverick" border style and Scotch name -- is going to have a leg up.
If I were the Obama people I would make the local campaign read Albion's Seed (where I cribbed most of this), have Webb and Edwards camp out in the Blue Ridge and the Smokies, and have one of them appear on the stage every time the candidate shows up.
And have him go early and often.
No tie. |
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.co...a-and-obama.php |
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| Zild |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Obama won Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina. Some base for Clinton. |
Those aren't hillbilly states damnit. Hillbilly states are synonymous with Appalachia not with the South. |
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