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Where To Go From Here?
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| cenik |
Hi guys.
Over the last month or so I have began producing and at this point I've put together three tracks. I have yet to buy monitors (something which I plan to do in the fall): for now I use studio headphones (audio-technica ATH-M40fs cans) when producing. Anyways, I've been using Live 7, a bunch of samples, and some VTS to put together my tunes. I thought that by using samples (e.g. Loopmasters stuff, Vengeance stuff, Vipzone stuff, Mutekki Media stuff, Ueberschall stuff, etc.) I would be able to achieve crisp, loud sounds without too much difficulty but I was mistaken. When I listen to my tunes through my headphones the songs sound nice and loud (with a good amount of thump) but I just played the same tracks in my car and they sound dull/hollow/weak (I use my car as a test system for now because I have a quality sub and amp and I listen to so much music in the vehicle that I know how music 'should' sound (especially for low-end (bass, kick drum) sounds)). Now, obviously the tracks haven't been mastered and, so, I cannot expect them to sound perfect but I know that many of you guys are able to achieve a very good sounding song even before you send out the track to be mastered. The high end stuff in my songs doesn't sound too bad (although it's not great) but I'm really concerned about the low end, e.g. bass and drums: I have a sub in my car which can really pound out the bass but I find that with my songs the bass/drums play primarily through the car's speakers instead of pumping out through the sub.
To make my issue simpler I'll say this: I now understand how to properly arrange a track (I mean: I can take a drum sample (or two), a bassline (sampled or made through a VST), an arp-type sound (sampled or made through a VST), some white noise, and other instruments and add a bunch of filters/play around with a bunch of parameters (adjust my levels, automate volume, reverb, sustain, cutoff frequency, apply filter delays, and so on)) in order to compose a tune) but I do not know what to do next. I can arrange the sounds in a song to my liking and build the track as I see fit but once I have all the samples and created sounds positioned as I'd like them I am unsure how to proceed. For now I've just been playing around with the volume settings in Live/VSTs (or throwing a compressor on a sound in an attempt to make it sound louder (an improper way to use a compressor I suspect)) in order to get the tune to sound as balanced as possible but I know that there is a lot more involved--I just don't know where to start. I strongly suspect that there are many more things that need to be done (e.g. applying certain filters, adjusting certain frequencies, etc.) but what these things are I have no clue. I was reading some of the replies posted in the thread about the guy's mixes sounding hollow and I see that some of you have recommended using limiters--I'm not sure, however, how they are to be applied. In order to get a thumping kick drum/bass-line, is it simply a matter of using an equalizer to boost the low-end frequencies or is there much more involved? (While we're talking about levels: I find that if I want to prevent clipping in any given song I have to turn down all my individual tracks significantly but doing so just results in a barely-listen-to-able song since it sounds so quiet).
Anyways, if you guys could provide me with some suggestions as to what kinds of processes I should be considering after I have arranged a song to my liking and would like to go on to make the tune sound as best as possible I'd really appreciate it. If somebody is interested in listening to one of my songs and giving me some guidance that way (e.g. through MSN) I'd definitely be willing to send out the song and chat one-on-one.
Thanks in advance! Your responses mean a lot :) |
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| davidbuhau |
time and effort... this is NOT easy... just keep at it
david |
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| Dj Nacht |
| Fist off headphones is a nono. Some say its ok but to be honest I do stuff in my phones and listen in my monitors and its way off most of the time. Kick drum in the phones cam be very decieving ! VERY bad IMO. Compression to make sounds seem louder is not bad at all just make sure you understand what you are doing. EQ is important because you can notch or filter frequencies out in a sound that are not neccesary. You can also sweep frequencies with a notch boost to find the sweet spot in a sound to bring it out. Concentrate a lot on your individual sounds! Take the time to make sure they are perfect! Mastering can help a lot! but you cant make something bad turn good. Find a good kick drum make sure it really kicks! Take an hour to make sure its perfect! Its one of the most important elements of a track! Add some effects to your sounds through the sends! Give all your sounds a bit of reverb and pan things around so you have a nice stereo effect. Dont put anything on your master channel untill you fully understand what you are doing! No limiters yet! Anyways its 2:16 and im drunk so dont listen to me! weeeeeeeee |
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| derail |
It's called mixing. There's no "secret" to getting a great sounding song together. It's years of experience, of spending time in the studio, paying attention to everything you're doing. Listen to your favourite tracks and write down the tiniest details about what's happening. Get to know your tools inside out. (Vengeance kicks don't need any processing applied to them. If you're adding eq to the low end, that means the other sounds are getting in the way of the kick. Don't change the kick, change the other sounds.)
It's good to see you're eager to learn, but I see this question from a lot of people starting out - "how do I make my songs sound good?". That's like asking a thousand questions all at the same time. The answer is, spend a few years reading, learning, mixing, listening, and it's very straightforward - your songs will sound good. The first couple of years will be frustrating, but as long as you pay attention and look to learn and improve every day, you'll be fine.
In terms of providing one-on-one guidance to speed up your learning process, I'm available for that. pm me and we'll discuss hourly rates!
Fabian |
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| cenik |
Thanks for the responses everybody :)
I've checked out those links and printed off a bunch of stuff (including some tuts on EQing and compression that I had on my pc) to help me understand better some of the aspects of the mixing/mastering process. I appreciate the help and in time I'll post some of my stuff in the music section ;) |
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| evo8 |
forget about mastering, your track should soon good enough without it, thats only the finishing touch as it were
The low end is key i.e. kick and bass - i think you really need to be mixing on monitors, headphones are needed but i dont think i could do a whole mix on headphones
I have a set of HR624s, they dont have a whole lot of low end, so when im doing the kick and bassline i switch over to my hifi so i can get a decent idea of whats goin on with the low end
Compare your tracks to pro tracks on the system you use, it will take time but you will get there if you keep at it long enough - mixing properly just takes years of experience which is the hard part for somone just starting out, it can be realy frustrating at times so just stay at it!
Also try and listen to your mixes at low volume as well as high - if you can hear everything nice and clear at low volume then it'll usually sound really nice when you turn it up
Good music always begs for the volume to be turned up - concentrate on the kick and bass, if you start getting those nailed the rest of it will fall into place!
just my 2 cents :) |
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| DigiNut |
Aside from the standard fare on better mixing being a laborious process requiring patience and practice, I'll also suggest that you not do all your mixing on headphones. Even if you have high-quality studio headphones (which you don't really), the most basic basic hi-fi speakers and subwoofer are still better to mix on. Any headphones will exaggerate the stereo separation and give you wussy bass. You just can't hear the whole picture.
So long as you've got something better than a built-in laptop speaker or those half-pound Logitech pieces of crap, you'll be better off using that. You can A/B with the cans to listen for problems that aren't audible through the speakers, but that's about as far as you want to take it. |
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| theartfulducker |
| Headphones are terrible to mix stuff in !!! Digi is totally right. Getting some studio monitors and a sub will do more for your tunez than anything else if you havnt got sum allready. |
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| Eric J |
+1
The more I make this music, the more I realize that the two most important parts of your setup are good monitors and a good audio interface. Everything else should be a secondary consideration. If you are just starting out, sink your initial investment in those two things first. |
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