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Bush declares progress in Iraq war (pg. 3)
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| LatinLover |
| ^^^ If Obama were to read all the BS you talk, i'll bet that he would renounce your support |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by LatinLover
^^^ If Obama were to read all the BS you talk, i'll bet that he would renounce your support |
Good one, keep trying.. |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by LatinLover
Your disturbed mind wont let you get pass the fact that the long term effect of this liberation will be the best thing that ever happened to Iraq. Decades from now Iraqis will be grateful that the US overthrew their dictator. Please Opus dont be so negative. We are in the right track now, and things are getting better for Iraq. And yet the far left still wont get past " why did we invade iraq". and they proclaim theirself the party of "change" and "progress" when clearly they are still living in the past. |
What is left of Iraq you mean, I'm sure. How little you understand the effect of such a war on a country is astounding.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jan/06/world/fg-jobs6
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08...ia/refugees.php
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/19/w...9migration.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddes...highereducation
We'll see what happens in the next few decades, but building a strong democracy with a good economy with almost no middle class is an uphill battle if there ever was one.
I don't think the Iraqis care whether they have a democracy, a dictator, or an islamic revolution that institutes Sharia law. I think they just want money, security and some semblance of opportunity whatever the cost. |
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| LatinLover |
Clovis, Clovis. All of a sudden you and the far left expect everything in Iraq to be perfect. To have a stable government, a stable economy and so on... There is no doubt that Iraq is in the process in acheiving it... we are on our way to ensure financial and civil security to Iraqis.
But it seems that to you and the far left there is no good news in Iraq. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by LatinLover
Clovis, Clovis. All of a sudden you and the far left expect everything in Iraq to be perfect. To have a stable government, a stable economy and so on... There is no doubt that Iraq is in the process in acheiving it... we are on our way to ensure financial and civil security to Iraqis.
But it seems that to you and the far left there is no good news in Iraq. |
Wait, are you moving the goalposts? |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by LatinLover
Clovis, Clovis. All of a sudden you and the far left expect everything in Iraq to be perfect. To have a stable government, a stable economy and so on... There is no doubt that Iraq is in the process in acheiving it... we are on our way to ensure financial and civil security to Iraqis.
But it seems that to you and the far left there is no good news in Iraq. |
All of a sudden?
:conf:
I'm just pointing out the obvious, the picture that the rest of the educated world sees very clearly and you just want to ignore for the sake of screaming VICTORY.
We've reduced a country to shambles, to a shadow of its former self, and you expect some beautiful flowering democracy to grow out of that?
ing delusional, thats what you are. I'm extremely happy for any good news in Iraq, including recently improved security. But theres are hardly huge victories. Face the reality of what the country is like NOW. If that situation was going on anywhere in America people would be declaring a disaster. So there are less IEDs and suicide bombings these days. They are still happening far too frequently for a society to be able to live peacefully. You would not want to live in Iraq, neither would I and to say that things are looking up while it is still this bad is pretty stupid.
Anyway I don't expect you to understand any of this because you lack the intellectual capacity to do so. But the smart folks know what the real deal is.
The Iraq war was a tragedy any way you look at it, for everyone involved. |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by LatinLover
Clovis, Clovis. All of a sudden you and the far left expect everything in Iraq to be perfect. To have a stable government, a stable economy and so on... There is no doubt that Iraq is in the process in acheiving it... we are on our way to ensure financial and civil security to Iraqis. |
How about you try to achieve the original goals? you know like WMD's?al Qaeda in Iraq? or did you already accomplished those goals?
| quote: | | But it seems that to you and the far left there is no good news in Iraq. |
No there is no good news in Iraq,can you get through your head?these so called achievments as of late are just a bunch of bull the Bush Admin is trying to feed the American public. |
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| Kinezi |
| Even if you turn Iraq into NYC now, you can never say.. 'see we did good thing by invading iraq' or 'see iraqies are way better now' or 'we won' and bull like that... cos that would be an insult both to iraqies and the dead iraqies. |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kinezi
Even if you turn Iraq into NYC now, you can never say.. 'see we did good thing by invading iraq' or 'see iraqies are way better now' or 'we won' and bull like that... cos that would be an insult both to iraqies and the dead iraqies. |
This is something way beyond Latinlover's brain capacity to understand. |
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| Zild |
| I've said it before but progress in Iraq is akin to someone making progress learning how to speak and walk again after a near fatal beatdown from the police because they reached for their wallet. The police obviously thought they had an assault rifle up hidden up their so they were justified. |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by LatinLover
Your disturbed mind wont let you get pass the fact that the long term effect of this liberation will be the best thing that ever happened to Iraq. Decades from now Iraqis will be grateful that the US overthrew their dictator. Please Opus dont be so negative. We are in the right track now, and things are getting better for Iraq. And yet the far left still wont get past " why did we invade iraq". and they proclaim theirself the party of "change" and "progress" when clearly they are still living in the past. |
The negativity I share with over 2/3 of Americans who also want us out is also shared with the majority of Iraqis as well as the majority of their government. Once again it's worth pointing out that you and the rest of the fading neocons are in the minority with your views of "success", however that may be measured.
Which, by the way, can you help define "victory" for us again? Can you help define the goals to which we have before you move them once again? Because your Administration has the darnest time defining these things for us all, which tends to bring a slight bout of skepticism in all of us as a consequence.
Regardless, the examination of the SURGE! needs to be understood not by the short-term decrease in violence, but how exactly that short term decrease was created in the first place and the consequences that could very well result in the creation. A cease fire created and continued by al Sadr is a very large part of this decrease in violence, which he absolutely loves to continue since the situation completely favors his interests in the future. The displacement of tens of millions of Iraqis via ethnic cleansing is also a major point of concern that has contributed to the decrease as well, yet it seemingly is completely overlooked and hand-waved away as if it carries no consequence. The paying off of the Sunni insurgents with money and guns is also being completely overlooked, which again has a short-term gain of decreasing violence but can have a cataclysmic long-term effect of heavily arming and supplying one of the main clashing factions.
This all has a potential boiling effect that can explode at any moment without notice, yet you want us to merely clap louder and stop being so darn negative.
Oh, and by the way, you remember the whole point of the SURGE!, right? It was NOT for a means to an end of simply reducing violence. The means was to reduce violence for an end result of the political process to take place so we can get their government to finally govern themselves, and then we get the outa there. The goals that were created (18, I believe) are still not even close to being met as the Iraqi government continues to rely on us as their crutch, even though the majority of their political members want us out as well.
And that is why the SURGE! continues to be unsuccessful, because the primary goal of the political process remains stagnant, and we have put absolutely no pressure on them to move forward, which I firmly believe must happen. The threat of our troops leaving in a phased withdrawal, I believe, is a useful tool to put pressure on the Iraqi government to move forward so they can finally govern themselves and control their own country. And the tactics on how it was created is also quite dangerous for the reasons I described above.
By the way, how the hell do they keep letting your ass back in here? Their tolerance is obviously much higher for you than I ever would have, but I guess we'll wait and see how long it takes you to get banned once again. |
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| St_Andrew |
| ^^ I really don't get why the Obama campaign isn't downplaying the role surge more (they don't really do that at all). |
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