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Progress in music, moving music forward, etc. (pg. 3)
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| Guest |
| quote: | Originally posted by StephenWiley
I personally think dance music needs more good vocal tunes. We need some big name artists to sing some good music. I'm not talking about cheesy vocal trance crap that AVB and all his spawns are putting off.
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There has definitely been a shortage of well thought out and constructed vocals over the last 3-4 years. There was a time where dj's played a ton of vocals for hours on end. The bar was much higher back then. I'm thinking along the lines of Hex Hector days.
Iio - At The End for example. That vocal is so darn good. Its actually a melody in itself |
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| Guest |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
when was the last time you heard something that was so original you couldn't remember anything that sounded like it - it reminded you of nothing?
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When I started listening to Mathew Jonson/Cobbleston Jazz
I feel like Mathew is a constant source of fresh sounds |
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| nefardec |
hmm i see most of his stuff as recycled older detroit, nu-jazz and electro sounds. it seems like you haven't heard a lot of 90s detroit house - most of his sounds can be found in that amazing body of work.
however, MJ and CJ are still awesome. I think "W" is a pretty unique track. The arrangements for sure are unique as far as the detroit sound goes, and that's where the real innovation comes.
I mean the name itself is rather retrospective - 'cobblestone jazz'. I would describe what they do as rearranging classic detroit sounds with a minimalistic contemporary technique and an improvised, jazz approach.
i wouldn't call them 'fresh sounds', mainly just 'good music'. there's nothing wrong with that. most of what i play and buy i wouldn't describe as 'fresh' either, i just like deep, beautiful, captivating, mysterious, wonderful music |
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| stevėsto |
dance music has had a lack of creativity for a while now. its bad enough when someone sits down and says they're going to make a dance track, but even worse when they say they're going to make a HOUSE track, or MINIMAL track, or TECHNO track. they are already setting boundaries and limiting creativity in the process. furthermore, the fact that an EDM scene exists in the first place is not good either. when a scene exists (for any type of music, not just EDM), producers make music to please people that are familiar with that type of music already. so its this cycle that builds off stuff that's been done before.
nowadays, techno is a bad word, and is used to describe "that repetitive " that is not hip hop/rock/anything on the radio with lyrics that dumb people can sing to. what ive realized lately is, these people are not dumb, WE are the ones who are dumb and have not realized we have "beatitis" or "beat addiction". people make a track with the intention of it being played at 4am at a certain setting, with certain sound system requirements, having visions of undergroundness grandeur.
what we all as djs and producers in the EDM scene need to do is step out of the scene and start hanging out with normal people. try to make normal people dance any way that you can. dont make excuses when the frat crowd doesnt like your minimal repetitive , try to understand where they are coming from and figure out how to make them move. everything is too underground minded and needs to be more sensible and have more variety, this will save it from sounding boring to the average listener. another thing that will save dance music is actual albums, a concept seemingly lost these days. why is there no producer out there that can make an album that has just about every genre represented? for example an album with a minimal track, a dnb track, a vocal house track, etc? is it because of the rules of the industry?
anyway, new thing lately seems to be live remixing/cutting up existing music to make new music like girl talk and believe it or not is the same thing richie hawtin does as well, despite having completely different sounds and audiences, their process is very similiar. the future also lies in indie rock bands stealing the 4x4 dance beat like chromeo, simian mobile disco, guns n bombs,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edykp_tRqUc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEfKBEWGQwg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0zrZSxJNU4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtmhGthP7vk
im sure those of you stuck in underground world will cringe at this, but remember where our music came from. it started with depeche mode, joy division, prodigy, and from there went more repetitive and further from traditional music forms. dance music needs a big reset button pressed on it, and that means start over from the beginning, start by making normal music again like the old days and then go underground from there. |
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| bas |
| quote: | Originally posted by stevėsto
dance music has had a lack of creativity for a while now. its bad enough when someone sits down and says they're going to make a dance track, but even worse when they say they're going to make a HOUSE track, or MINIMAL track, or TECHNO track. they are already setting boundaries and limiting creativity in the process. furthermore, the fact that an EDM scene exists in the first place is not good either. when a scene exists (for any type of music, not just EDM), producers make music to please people that are familiar with that type of music already. so its this cycle that builds off stuff that's been done before.
nowadays, techno is a bad word, and is used to describe "that repetitive " that is not hip hop/rock/anything on the radio with lyrics that dumb people can sing to. what ive realized lately is, these people are not dumb, WE are the ones who are dumb and have not realized we have "beatitis" or "beat addiction". people make a track with the intention of it being played at 4am at a certain setting, with certain sound system requirements, having visions of undergroundness grandeur.
what we all as djs and producers in the EDM scene need to do is step out of the scene and start hanging out with normal people. try to make normal people dance any way that you can. dont make excuses when the frat crowd doesnt like your minimal repetitive , try to understand where they are coming from and figure out how to make them move. everything is too underground minded and needs to be more sensible and have more variety, this will save it from sounding boring to the average listener. another thing that will save dance music is actual albums, a concept seemingly lost these days. why is there no producer out there that can make an album that has just about every genre represented? for example an album with a minimal track, a dnb track, a vocal house track, etc? is it because of the rules of the industry?
anyway, new thing lately seems to be live remixing/cutting up existing music to make new music like girl talk and believe it or not is the same thing richie hawtin does as well, despite having completely different sounds and audiences, their process is very similiar. the future also lies in indie rock bands stealing the 4x4 dance beat like chromeo, simian mobile disco, guns n bombs,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edykp_tRqUc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEfKBEWGQwg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0zrZSxJNU4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtmhGthP7vk
im sure those of you stuck in underground world will cringe at this, but remember where our music came from. it started with depeche mode, joy division, prodigy, and from there went more repetitive and further from traditional music forms. dance music needs a big reset button pressed on it, and that means start over from the beginning, start by making normal music again like the old days and then go underground from there. |
A couple things in response:
1. Techno was never a bad word. People that know what it is know, and that's what matters.
2. Telling djs and producers to be open minded is silly. Trying to appease to a "frat" crowd (I'm assuming you mean the general top 40/hip hop clubber) is the dumbest thing on the ing planet. They tend to like regurgitated pop bull, the last thing I would ever want to do as a dj or producer is be lumped in with that lot.
3. Calling Guns N' Bombs, Simian Mobile Disco and Chromeo "bands" isn't fair to bands. They're live performers yes, but imo, a band requires actual instruments and more than two people :p
4. "Where our music came from" and you use THOSE examples? C'mon man, they were super underground when they started. Do you think that anyone had any idea who Joy Division was when they were playing at the Hacienda? C'maaaannn
edit // I think the fact that everything is getting smaller and going back to the underground IS dance music's big reset button. |
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| adi_hanson |
Never been into people , who say for example , ''i like a progressive track with elements of goa mixed with a bit of anthem and epic trance , over a hint of minimal and a hard house theme, seperated by a strong funky house drive,
THATS my kinda music''
:wtf:
But thats the way of the music business these days ,
But as long as money plays a part , sounds will follow the cash , full stop!
plus , no offence , im sick of long haired guitar wierdos telling me how trance is not music and a geek with a guitar is the only thing i should hear!but the same applies to EDM fanatics as well.
Its a sad end but all non-profit genres will be driven underground and all music that will be played to the dumb,popularised,young and willing to part with cash for music people will eat itself out and collapse in a remix pile of crap
Bad days ahead |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by stevėsto
what we all as djs and producers in the EDM scene need to do is step out of the scene and start hanging out with normal people. try to make normal people dance any way that you can. dont make excuses when the frat crowd doesnt like your minimal repetitive , try to understand where they are coming from and figure out how to make them move. |
actually that's exactly what i am doing with my residency. it is definitely a challenge :)
i've always believed in the universal power of good music. if something is really good it can penetrate into anyone's heart. |
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| diggerz |
nefardec, while I agree with most of what you said, I think wether or not a song is feasible to our ears and stomach will depend on who is the person listening, that is obvious of course, but my point can only be visualized if I provide few examples of my own.
I think Kraftwerk and Tangerine Dream were just as groundbreaking as Aphex Twin and Robert Henke, the latter I consider as more recent examples, of musicians with a vision of the future. I think 'forward-thinking' would apply to all music that stretches and defies it's own parameters. Michael Mayer once said that 'minimal' is a genre that has been a victim of it's own self-imposed rules |
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| bas |
| quote: | Originally posted by bas
3. Calling Guns N' Bombs, Simian Mobile Disco and Chromeo "bands" isn't fair to bands. They're live performers yes, but imo, a band requires actual instruments and more than two people :p
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I just wanted to clarify that I don't think not referring to these guys as bands doesn't discredit their musical ability by any means. I feel that in order to be a 'band' in the musical sense, you have to hit something or strum something real :p |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
here's a question:
when was the last time you heard something that was so original you couldn't remember anything that sounded like it - it reminded you of nothing? |
About two months ago, when I first heard the Sabres of Paradise album "Haunted Dancehall". Granted, that's a 15 year old record, but the fact that it still stands alone means there are still new directions to be taken.
I think the problem is not that there is nothing new to be done, but that there's too little impetus to do it. If you make something genuinely new, something that genuinely sounds like nothing else, DJs won't play it. They won't be able to fit it in without a jarring effect unless they're very good. People are less likely to listen, because people like to hear what they know, so the audience is limited. It becomes the domain of unsigned, unheard, unplayed music.
The few artists out there who make genuinely genreless, totally individual music are almost always people who cut their teeth making conventional stuff until they had the fanbase to sustain them while they did whatever they want. The exceptions would be the IDM crowd where experimentalism was the means and the end. |
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| StephenWiley |
Vocals Vocals Vocals.
GOOD Vocal tracks will never get old (Look how many bloody remixes have been spat out from the older ones). Write that down!
(and get to work on some good vocals!) |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by stevėsto
what we all as djs and producers in the EDM scene need to do is step out of the scene and start hanging out with normal people. try to make normal people dance any way that you can. dont make excuses when the frat crowd doesnt like your minimal repetitive , try to understand where they are coming from and figure out how to make them move. everything is too underground minded and needs to be more sensible and have more variety, this will save it from sounding boring to the average listener. another thing that will save dance music is actual albums, a concept seemingly lost these days. why is there no producer out there that can make an album that has just about every genre represented? for example an album with a minimal track, a dnb track, a vocal house track, etc? is it because of the rules of the industry?
anyway, new thing lately seems to be live remixing/cutting up existing music to make new music like girl talk and believe it or not is the same thing richie hawtin does as well, despite having completely different sounds and audiences, their process is very similiar. the future also lies in indie rock bands stealing the 4x4 dance beat like chromeo, simian mobile disco, guns n bombs,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edykp_tRqUc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEfKBEWGQwg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0zrZSxJNU4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtmhGthP7vk
im sure those of you stuck in underground world will cringe at this, but remember where our music came from. it started with depeche mode, joy division, prodigy, and from there went more repetitive and further from traditional music forms. dance music needs a big reset button pressed on it, and that means start over from the beginning, start by making normal music again like the old days and then go underground from there. |
So, the basic solution to the lack of creativity in dance music is to try and make stuff that will get played on MTV?
:p |
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