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Daniel Pearl (pg. 3)
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| vmc |
| quote: | Originally posted by rupert
If I was a Chechen, I think I would want some payback for all the things the Soviet Union and the Russains have done to them.
Same situation as Israel.
Same situation as Bosnia.
Same situation as Kosovo.
Western/European minorities trying to impose control over a Muslim majority.
If only westerners, Americans, Israelis, Russians, serbs spent one day living as a Muslim. Just one ing day in the shoes of the oppressed muslim in Chechnya or the Occupied Territories, then you would understand why Muslim extremists take such vicious delight in killing their perceived oppressors.
There is a cultural war, waged by us against Islam and people are shocked when they fight back.
I suspect September 11 is only the beginning |
that's not the reason to kill innocent people.
so you think 11 sept was right, huh? |
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| Technaut |
thank you, I know remember seeing this on the news.
:( |
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| big dave |
| i just saw the video and what they s did to that guy was completely sick! |
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| Izzy |
this is the part that gets me bioled up...
the outrage in america is no where as it should be, ok let me set up the situation,
before D. Pearl was killed, the tortures made him say:
"my parents are jews, my kids are jews and i am a jew"
then they kill him
pure anti semetism
but get this, if this video got out as as a white man in like alabama forcing a black to say: "im a nigga, my kids are niggas, and i am a nigga" and then be killed, the outrage in america would last for months.
all i think is that there seems to be a double standard when it comes to dealing with anti semetism. |
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by Izzy
this is the part that gets me bioled up...
the outrage in america is no where as it should be, ok let me set up the situation,
before D. Pearl was killed, the tortures made him say:
"my parents are jews, my kids are jews and i am a jew"
then they kill him
pure anti semetism
but get this, if this video got out as as a white man in like alabama forcing a black to say: "im a nigga, my kids are niggas, and i am a nigga" and then be killed, the outrage in america would last for months.
all i think is that there seems to be a double standard when it comes to dealing with anti semetism. |
Your analogy is faulty. First of all Nigga is a negativ term - Jew is not. Secondly, Pearl was a journalist seeking out known extremists in a far away country as research for a story he was going to write, a random black guy from Alabama could easily be living peacefully in Alabama when attacked by the white guy. Third, afro-americans didn't chose to move to America, and didn't establish themselves as rulers when arriving there, Israelis did.
When that is said and done, I must stress that I do not condone the killing of Pearl. It was barbaric and uncalled for. But if you want to drum up anti-anti-semitism hysteria you must compare like with like. |
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| Izzy |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
First of all Nigga is a negativ term - Jew is not.
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it doesnt matter, it is still someone trying to single out the other based on race.
| quote: |
Secondly, Pearl was a journalist seeking out known extremists in a far away country as research for a story he was going to write, a random black guy from Alabama could easily be living peacefully in Alabama when attacked by the white guy.
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does that make Pearl guilty in any way? a murder is a murder, as long as you're innocent doesnt matter if you are living peacefully at home or doing field work as a journalist.
| quote: | Third, afro-americans didn't chose to move to America, and didn't establish themselves as rulers when arriving there, Israelis did.
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dont even go there... dont start lies you know are complete crap. i could go on and on disproving what you just said but for short if anyone established the israelis as rulers it was the UK (balfour declaration) and UN (partition plan). |
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| Tranex02 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
Yes, I was being sarcastic. I was simply following trancaholic's line of reasoning so as to better get my point across about how ignornant come people in this world are with regards to the "terrorism" issue. I certainly don't have anything against Islam, nor do I think I know enough to properly form such a judgement about it.
So yeah, I didn't mean to cause offence. May have to start using smilies so you can all tell when I'm being sarcastic. :thepirate:
*slinks back into corner* |
I'm Sorry Renegade...:p I couldn't really tell exactly if you were or not. But i guess it serves those who might have such a view.
Didn't mean to jump out at you that quick.
;) |
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by Izzy
it doesnt matter, it is still someone trying to single out the other based on race. |
True, but by using the word Nigga, you're appealing to anger and not sense.
| quote: | Originally posted by Izzy
does that make Pearl guilty in any way? a murder is a murder, as long as you're innocent doesnt matter if you are living peacefully at home or doing field work as a journalist. |
No, that does not make Pearl guilty. That was not my point. Pearl was in a situation known to be dangerous - he took a chance and came out at a loss. The black guy did not.
| quote: | Originally posted by Izzy
dont even go there... dont start lies you know are complete crap. i could go on and on disproving what you just said but for short if anyone established the israelis as rulers it was the UK (balfour declaration) and UN (partition plan). |
I know, but that doesn't make the sufferings of Palestineans any less real - does it? I was pointing out that Arabs have a reason (though not an excuse) for being pissed - the white guy in Alabama have none. But let's not go into this debate, my point was simply to highlight the differences between the two scenarios, and thus why you shouldn't write stuff like that. Not to attack you or Jews in general.
Although your retaliation was sound, your original analogy still does not hold in my book. |
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| Renegade |
Tranex:
Nah, that's okay mate. I didn't really make it clear that I was being sarcastic, so I don't mind your reaction at all. In fact, like trancaholic said, it's actually good that you are so willing to speak out against such views. :)
Anyway, no harm done.
| quote: | | if you want to drum up anti-anti-semitism hysteria you must compare like with like. |
I think all Izzy was trying to point out was that there was distinct anti-semitism in the actions of his murderers, and was in no way attempting to draw a solid comparison between the victimisation of Jews and the victimisation of blacks (the example was incidental to the argument, not central).
However, Izzy, I think any anti-semitic overtones in the ordeal are completely overshadowed by the fact that a man - a human being - was brutally murdered. Any qualms about racial victimisation are surely rendered inconsequential when presented with such a horrid death. Whether he was killed for being a Jew, an American or a chess-club president is fairly irrelevent: a man was killed, there is no need to look for any further reasons to hate and oppose the men that did this to him. Their actions speak louder than their words. |
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| Tranex02 |
| quote: | Originally posted by TranceGiant
and you fully believe the arab excuse for their own failure and lack of development in the last decades?
The "we are victims!!" fairy tale? I sense naivité... |
The "arab excuse" ?????
I don't see where you got that from....
Are you refering to the palestinians or what.
I think he was refering to muslims in Eastern countries like Bosnia, etc.....
"We are victims" ... I seriously do not want to get into this discussion but the Israelies share the same slogan.
| quote: | Originally posted by Izzy
the outrage in america is no where as it should be, ok let me set up the situation,
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so you want more attention? You more hatred to rise between the people?
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
When that is said and done, I must stress that I do not condone the killing of Pearl. It was barbaric and uncalled for. But if you want to drum up anti-anti-semitism hysteria you must compare like with like. |
I agree with what you said. It was obviously an evil act.
I also agree with Renegade, but Izzy was refering to the american reaction to what happened, not the reason for the murder. |
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| TranceGiant |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
I know, but that doesn't make the sufferings of Palestineans any less real - does it? I was pointing out that Arabs have a reason (though not an excuse) for being pissed - the white guy in Alabama have none. But let's not go into this debate, my point was simply to highlight the differences between the two scenarios, and thus why you shouldn't write stuff like that. Not to attack you or Jews in general.
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first of all: i believe that all explenations eventually end up in justifications and excuses. Theoretically you could explain everything: A 12 year old girl getting raped, the holocaust, or the coumbine massacre. You could find the "reason" in ANY case. The point is: in some cases i dont care about the alleged reasons, i dont wanna hear them, they are senseless subjective and irrelevant(maybe just satisfying our need to explain simply everything happening--> for example religion?).
The Arabs have a reason to be pissed at the Jews because of Israel's policy---> Weak..
With the same argumentation I could find the "reasons" for an Israeli mob lynching innocent palestinians on the street: "Suprisingly" that has never happened, nor would I justify it by searching for the reasons if its gonna happen. Going back to Izzy's analogy I could use your way of seeing it and saying: Hey, maybe the white guy from Alabama lost a job to a ´black man? maybe his daughter was raped by one? maybe she was offered drugs by a black dealer? That must of pisse dhim off for sure...
You see..that is the same generalizing stupid view you talked about.
rembmer: Not all Jews are Israelis
Not all Israelis are murderers or aggressors |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
However, Izzy, I think any anti-semitic overtones in the ordeal are completely overshadowed by the fact that a man - a human being - was brutally murdered. Any qualms about racial victimisation are surely rendered inconsequential when presented with such a horrid death. Whether he was killed for being a Jew, an American or a chess-club president is fairly irrelevent: a man was killed, there is no need to look for any further reasons to hate and oppose the men that did this to him. Their actions speak louder than their words. |
This is a very interesting philosophy, however it is very different then one could conclude from a logical observation of this philosophy.
Indeed, the killing of any humman brutally murdered is horrible. The point here however is that this is not 'any human'. They did not capture 'any western journalist', although I am assured they could have. They did not catch an arab journalist, or someone else from the west. They captured a jew. And they killed him because he was a jew.
See they believed because he was a Jew, he was automatically an Israeli Spy. And since he was an Israeli, he was a bad-jew, and therefore they can kill him with no regret. Just like suicide bombers can kill innocent israelis with no regret. Indeed, they think it actually makes them a better person, one who will go to heaven and be blessed with numerous virgins.
And belive me trancaholic, "Jew" is a derogatory term in the Arab world. Imagine what the sword fight would look like in the caves of Afghanistan if an Al Quedia memember called another a Jew. Apparently it is not just a 'word' without a conitation. It means different things to different people. And to these people it is a bad word. Just like 'Nigga' is a good term in the context when it is applied from one person of color to another, "Jew" is a bad term when used by anti-semitists in regard to a person. I hope you come to learn the words have more to them then just their definition in the dictionary.
So Izzy is right in the sense that this is a case of anti-semitism. And if it were a black report their in afghanistan and he was forced to say "I am a niggger, My Farther was a niggger, and My mother was a niggger" and was then executed, there would be much more outrage from the world. Anti-semitism is judged by a double-standard in this world if you like to believe it or not. The best case for this is the so called "UN talks regarding Race and Human Rights".
Yoepus
First Law of Laboratory Work:
Hot glass looks exactly the same as cold glass. |
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