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Normalise my mixes within Audacity... (pg. 3)
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by skip
can you upload the unedited wav that you are trying to amplify? if people could try around with it themselves, the problem might be solved more easily.
if you can't do that, then can you at least post a screen shot of the unedited waveform? it might be just one pop or click or something like that preventing the amplification if you want to keep it from going over 0 dB.
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Good Suggestion. A single pop could be stopping the normalisation process doing it's thing.
| quote: | Originally posted by skip
also what is your source material? because making a "loud enough" digital copy of a vinyl recording will in most cases require a little bit of compression as the waveform is not as even as in a purely digital copy.
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Sorry but that's nonsense. Vinyl as a medium has a larger dynamic range - to say you need to compress a digital recording of vinyl to make it louder is wrong. Don't forget nearly all the music we play as DJ's is already compressed at various stages, from composition, to mastering (and again sometimes in vinyl's case for pressing). Compressing it again is just making all the levels relative levels closer together, and personally I don't think it's a good thing.
This isn't a compression thread but listen to well produced records of the 60's and 70's - they have real dynamic range, they have real quit parts and loud parts. Now listen to a modern pop production - everything is just loud. There has been a real competition to get your track elements as loud as possible (I think it stems from radio play, to make tracks stand out more than the last). you become desensitised and the dynamics (both in the technical and artist sense) are lost, which IMHO is not a good thing. |
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| skip |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Good Suggestion. A single pop could be stopping the normalisation process doing it's thing.
Sorry but that's nonsense. Vinyl as a medium has a larger dynamic range - to say you need to compress a digital recording of vinyl to make it louder is wrong. Don't forget nearly all the music we play as DJ's is already compressed at various stages, from composition, to mastering (and again sometimes in vinyl's case for pressing). Compressing it again is just making all the levels relative levels closer together, and personally I don't think it's a good thing.
This isn't a compression thread but listen to well produced records of the 60's and 70's - they have real dynamic range, they have real quit parts and loud parts. Now listen to a modern pop production - everything is just loud. There has been a real competition to get your track elements as loud as possible (I think it stems from radio play, to make tracks stand out more than the last). you become desensitised and the dynamics (both in the technical and artist sense) are lost, which IMHO is not a good thing. |
i agree with you. that's why i had the quotation marks on loud enough. i don't like overcompression any more than you do. if i want louder music, i prefer to just crank it up and not turn it into with overcompression.
but the thing is, if you want to make a digital recording from vinyl sound as loud as a completely digital version of the same track, you have to compress it (or raise the overall level so much that it distorts a bit at some points) because the music is not going to peak at the same level as evenly as on the completely digital version, thus making it sound quieter on the same setting. i know it's not wise to compress it, but what makes it difficult is mixing vinyl and digital sources together, recording it digitally and then trying to make it as loud as possible. it's not gonna sound as loud as the all the dj mix compilations put out unless you compress it.
and i'd like to state too, that i have not compressed any of my mixes or tracks i've recorded to my computer from vinyl as i don't think it's wise. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by skip
i agree with you. that's why i had the quotation marks on loud enough. i don't like overcompression any more than you do. if i want louder music, i prefer to just crank it up and not turn it into with overcompression.
but the thing is, if you want to make a digital recording from vinyl sound as loud as a completely digital version of the same track, you have to compress it (or raise the overall level so much that it distorts a bit at some points) because the music is not going to peak at the same level as evenly as on the completely digital version, thus making it sound quieter on the same setting. i know it's not wise to compress it, but what makes it difficult is mixing vinyl and digital sources together, recording it digitally and then trying to make it as loud as possible. it's not gonna sound as loud as the all the dj mix compilations put out unless you compress it.
and i'd like to state too, that i have not compressed any of my mixes or tracks i've recorded to my computer from vinyl as i don't think it's wise. |
I see what you're saying now - you were talking about relative loudness, when comparing mediums.
Having said that,I don't think difference between tracks in terms of dynamic range is such a bad thing, as long as the individual channel levels are again maintained properly. Yes, it's crap when levels between tracks are not relative but at the same time I hate it when I put on a CD and there is no variance, and everything is just so jacked up and in your face. |
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| agentdansmith |
| quote: | Originally posted by skip
can you upload the unedited wav that you are trying to amplify? if people could try around with it themselves, the problem might be solved more easily.
if you can't do that, then can you at least post a screen shot of the unedited waveform? it might be just one pop or click or something like that preventing the amplification if you want to keep it from going over 0 dB.
also what is your source material? because making a "loud enough" digital copy of a vinyl recording will in most cases require a little bit of compression as the waveform is not as even as in a purely digital copy. |
Ok cheers - here's a screengrab of my un-edited wav file...
I am using 2 x CDJ1000, Xone92, M-Audio Delta44 Soundcard
EDIT > hmmm.. ok the image tag hasn't worked :rolleyes:
Check out this link to the image then...
www.djtrig.com/misc/audacity_wav.jpg |
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| Trance Nutter |
I've never compressed or normalised any of my mixes (nor indeed ever thought about it).
Whats the reason for doing it? |
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| G-Con |
| quote: | Originally posted by agentdansmith
Ok cheers - here's a screengrab of my un-edited wav file...
I am using 2 x CDJ1000, Xone92, M-Audio Delta44 Soundcard
EDIT > hmmm.. ok the image tag hasn't worked :rolleyes:
Check out this link to the image then...
www.djtrig.com/misc/audacity_wav.jpg |
Others will know better than me but I would say from the screenshot that the mix was clipping in Audacity as there are lots of peaks hitting 0db which in reality means they were going over 0db. These peaks would also explain why normalisation isn't doing anything.
Is it possible to drop the recording level in Audacity but keep the mixer settings as they are to record at a lower level? |
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| agentdansmith |
| quote: | Originally posted by G-Con
Others will know better than me but I would say from the screenshot that the mix was clipping in Audacity as there are lots of peaks hitting 0db which in reality means they were going over 0db. These peaks would also explain why normalisation isn't doing anything.
Is it possible to drop the recording level in Audacity but keep the mixer settings as they are to record at a lower level? |
If I remember correctly, since I installed the Delta44 soundcard, it disabled Audacity's input level controls. So maybe there's something I need to do with the soundcard control panel?
Or just lower my gains on the mixer then and crank up the amp while recording? |
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| G-Con |
| quote: | Originally posted by agentdansmith
If I remember correctly, since I installed the Delta44 soundcard, it disabled Audacity's input level controls. So maybe there's something I need to do with the soundcard control panel?
Or just lower my gains on the mixer then and crank up the amp while recording? |
The Delta 44 does have levels for the various ins and outs so yeah, maybe they need to be turned down a bit, and see what the levels in Audacity are like whilst doin this to get it right. If you get it to peak at around -4db in Audacity, that will leave plenty of room to boost the mix afterwards.
I won't comment on where the gains on the mixer should be as I have no idea when it comes to that e ;) |
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| skip |
| from the pic it looks like you're clipping on most transitions. you should pay more attention to your levels during transitions, to make the overall peak height more even and thus enabling louder amplification. |
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| agentdansmith |
| quote: | Originally posted by skip
from the pic it looks like you're clipping on most transitions. you should pay more attention to your levels during transitions, to make the overall peak height more even and thus enabling louder amplification. |
I know what you're saying but I find it quite hard to do this without the mix sounding like there's a sudden volume drop. While mixing and when I listen to the mix afterwards, the volume sounds pretty level throughout (the transitions dont sound too loud nor crowded and hectic), but yes when looking at the waveform it would suggest otherwise.
What would you recommend me start doing then while transitioning to keep a steady level throughout? |
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| G-Con |
More careful eq'ing.
I've heard your mixes and they are dreadful
Only joking. Your mixes sound fine and I couldn't hear any reason why there would be big peaks during the transitons but overlapping frequencies can cause huge spikes so this could have something to do with it.
Maybe if you posted up a couple of the transitions for people on here to listen to, they maybe could help more. |
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