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studio monitors in the ~$500/pair range (pg. 5)
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by snatonsb
My Ibook Pro should be fast enough no..? It was a $3600 laptop dual core intel processor. 2gb of 667mhz ddr2 sdram and 160gb 5400-rpm hard drive. I have $6000 saved to spend on equipment is why I am asking all of this. Thank you for any advice you are giving though. |
Maybe, it depends on what you want to do. How fast the the processor?
A 5400 RPM disk is not going to cut it if you are doing a lot of audio streaming from the disk.
As for the $6,000, please do a LOT of research before you decide on where to sink that cash. You need to assess your needs and figure out what problem you are trying to solve by sinking more cash into your studio. Personally, I was having loads of problems with mix translation across different systems, which is why I did/am sinking so much money into Monitors and Audio Interface. If you are not having problems with translation, then it may not be necessary for you.
It may help if you give us more information on what you have.
1. Are you running a primarily hardware or software based studio?
2. What kind of audio interface do you currently have?
3. What kind of monitors do you currently have? |
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| snatonsb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric J
Maybe, it depends on what you want to do. How fast the the processor?
A 5400 RPM disk is not going to cut it if you are doing a lot of audio streaming from the disk.
As for the $6,000, please do a LOT of research before you decide on where to sink that cash. You need to assess your needs and figure out what problem you are trying to solve by sinking more cash into your studio. Personally, I was having loads of problems with mix translation across different systems, which is why I did/am sinking so much money into Monitors and Audio Interface. If you are not having problems with translation, then it may not be necessary for you.
It may help if you give us more information on what you have.
1. Are you running a primarily hardware or software based studio?
2. What kind of audio interface do you currently have?
3. What kind of monitors do you currently have? |
Yeah I really want to think this out before I shell out all that cash at times like this. Primarily running a software based studio. Just got Logic Pro 8 and it runs fine. I just want to know that I will be fine with my Macbook Pro and do minor upgrades to it instead of shelling out so much more money on a new computer...? I have some start out Krk monitors. That is why I was asking about monitors as in I wanted to upgrade. The Mackie and Focals is where my eyes are set. You said Focals is worth the upgrade if I have the $$$ so I am assuming these are the ones I should purchase no...? Are the Mackie's are capable of making good sounding EDM tracks....? Last question where is a good place to buy the Focals at...? Thanks for using your time to help out! :cool: |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
Don't get caught in the hype too much ;)
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Oh believe me, I'm a poacher turned game-keeper on this one! I used to be a manager the largest audio retailer in Europe and I know only too well that specs mean nothing and how much bull there is out there, that's why I only really go by personal experience (either mine or people who I know that are solid).
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
Latency is a factor which is mostly influenced by processing power, not so much the soundcard itself, given that is has proper drivers such as asio or the likes. I can go below 1ms with my soundcard as well, but it would almost triple the ammount of processing power necessary to accomplish such a low latency :).
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This is true and not. When considering a Lynx, Prism or Apogee interface I really take it as a given that you're not going to be running it on a beaten up old G3 or 386 machine. So basically there is ample processing power and this is where it is becomes critical to have drivers and hardware that make the most from that available processing power, and hence bring latencies down, in a stable and reliable manner.
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
It takes more processing power to get the packages quickly and organised to the soundcard in a shorter timeframe, simply put. So in theory you can achieve very low latency with just a proper computer without any good soundcard. :)
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Well again, this is true in theory but not in practice as your are effectively bottle-necked by the slowest link in the chain. Your computer might be able the handle the processing from a CPU point of view but the DAC data busses probably won't if they are not high quality.
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
Most important part is the quality/stability of the drivers and the ammount of detail the soundcard captures/exposes when converting the sound from the digital domain to the analog and vice versa :).
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This is very true and the most important factors, but when discussing prism, apogee or lynx the bar is set so high that we are basically discussing very subjective and etheral differences, in which opinion varies greatly. see below......
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
Apogee is more or less an industry standard for high quality sound. There are others out there though. But apogee definitely is good :)
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Apogee certainly are superb but industry standard? I would think at this level the industry standard is actually pro tools HD, simply because of volume of units and the sheer widespead use.
Apogee are kind of more at the boutique end of things (by this I don't mean cottage industry manufacturers etc, more that they are highly specialised products with only a limited market share).
Apogee do have a "sound", no doubt. I recently did a A/B with PTHD vs Apogee and even though minimal, there was a clear difference between them. I actually found the PTHD to be clear but quite dead, where apogee had more detail and slightly (tiny) more energy in mids (can't describe it any better than that).
At the very high end (non pro tools) I think the real contenders are Prism, Lynx, Apogee, Lavry and Wiess. If you end up with any of these you're on to a good thing and the rest is down to subjective taste IMO. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by snatonsb
Yeah I really want to think this out before I shell out all that cash at times like this. Primarily running a software based studio. Just got Logic Pro 8 and it runs fine. I just want to know that I will be fine with my Macbook Pro and do minor upgrades to it instead of shelling out so much more money on a new computer...? I have some start out Krk monitors. That is why I was asking about monitors as in I wanted to upgrade. The Mackie and Focals is where my eyes are set. You said Focals is worth the upgrade if I have the $$$ so I am assuming these are the ones I should purchase no...? Are the Mackie's are capable of making good sounding EDM tracks....? Last question where is a good place to buy the Focals at...? Thanks for using your time to help out! :cool: |
$6000 is a lot of money by anyone's standard for home studio upgrades. Mackies are great monitors, work very well for EDM and frankly if you can;t produce on them, you won't be able to produce on anything. Having said that, the focals are probably the best in the $3000 range, if you can stretch to that. I think what you need to do is work out your priorities: is it better to get $1000 monitors (which will do the job very nicely) and spend the rest on softsynths, maybe a hardware synth or 2 (Virus Ti etc.), great soundcard, and extra nice big monitor screen, room treatments, decent cables etc, or is it better for your situation to have $3000 monitors and a good soundcard?
It's really about what you feel you need for your specifif situation. Personally if I were spending that much, I would not spend a penny without exausting all the possible options. You're also probably better off by buying the lot from one place as they will be able to discount heavily (and don't take no for an answer when asking for discounts, especially in this economic climate). |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by snatonsb
Yeah I really want to think this out before I shell out all that cash at times like this. Primarily running a software based studio. Just got Logic Pro 8 and it runs fine. I just want to know that I will be fine with my Macbook Pro and do minor upgrades to it instead of shelling out so much more money on a new computer...? I have some start out Krk monitors. That is why I was asking about monitors as in I wanted to upgrade. The Mackie and Focals is where my eyes are set. You said Focals is worth the upgrade if I have the $$$ so I am assuming these are the ones I should purchase no...? Are the Mackie's are capable of making good sounding EDM tracks....? Last question where is a good place to buy the Focals at...? Thanks for using your time to help out! :cool: |
Even a top of the line MacBook Pro is going to be no match for a Mac Pro tower. A laptop is going to be a bit slower than an desktop for a variety of reasons. A MacBook may use a Core2Duo processor, but a tower is going to use, at minimum at QUAD core XEON processor which is going to be much faster. Add to that the fact that its on a better quality motherboard and uses faster RAM, and all this adds up to a faster machine overall.
If you are planning on running an all-software based studio, then it will be beneficial to get the fastest computer you can afford, because all those software effects and instruments are going to eat up computer resources very quickly.
With regards to the monitors: It is difficult to compare the Mackies with the Focals because you are talking about two completely different price points and levels of quality. Its like comparing a Toyota with a Mercedes. One is almost twice the price of the other because the quality is approximately twice as good. The Focal Twins are in a completely different league than the Mackies, as they should be considering the price.
This is why I'm suggesting you need to assess your needs before making any decision. There isn't going to be much point in getting $3,000 monitors if you are going to hook them up to a $300 audio interface, so you need to consider both the monitors AND the audio interface. You options for an audio interface for a notebook are limited to Firewire and USB, where as with a tower machine you can opt for a PCI based interface, which is less problematic IMO.
The Mackies are indeed a widely used monitor in EDM, however they have flaws that some find unacceptable. The midrange in the Mackies is very scooped and not clear at all, and this effect is even more pronounced when you A/B them against a set of monitors in a higher price bracket such as the Focal Twins. You can make good quality EDM on just about anything if you know what you are doing, but there is an old saying that "if you cant hear whats wrong with your mix, then how can you fix it?" This is where better quality monitors and DAC comes in the picture.
I really cannot recommend what you should buy because I think it is important that you make that decision for yourself. There are several monitors that you should consider, from several different manufacturers. Here is a suggested list that may help you get started:
Priced from Low to High:
ADAM A7 - $1,150/pair
Mackie HR824 MKII - $1,300/pair
Tannoy Reveal 5A - $1,400/pair
Genalec 8030A - $1,500/pair
JBL LSR4328P - $1,500/pair
Dynaudio Bm5A - $2,000/pair
Focal Solo6 - $2,000/pair
Genalec 8130A - $2,200/pair
ADAM P11A - $2,300/pair
Dynaudio BM15a - $2,400/pair
Genalec 8040A - $2,600/pair
ADAM P22A - $3,000/pair
Focal Twin 6 Be - $3,000/pair
ADAM P33A - $3,400/pair
Klein & Hummel O300 - $4,400/pair
You need to see if you can arrange a demo to try these out before you decide. Most of these are available from the major music retailers (Bongwater, Guitar Crapper, etc.) except the K&H and Focals. Those will have to be ordered through an authorized distributor. List of those can be found on the companies websites. |
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| snatonsb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric J
Even a top of the line MacBook Pro is going to be no match for a Mac Pro tower. A laptop is going to be a bit slower than an desktop for a variety of reasons. A MacBook may use a Core2Duo processor, but a tower is going to use, at minimum at QUAD core XEON processor which is going to be much faster. Add to that the fact that its on a better quality motherboard and uses faster RAM, and all this adds up to a faster machine overall.
If you are planning on running an all-software based studio, then it will be beneficial to get the fastest computer you can afford, because all those software effects and instruments are going to eat up computer resources very quickly.
With regards to the monitors: It is difficult to compare the Mackies with the Focals because you are talking about two completely different price points and levels of quality. Its like comparing a Toyota with a Mercedes. One is almost twice the price of the other because the quality is approximately twice as good. The Focal Twins are in a completely different league than the Mackies, as they should be considering the price.
This is why I'm suggesting you need to assess your needs before making any decision. There isn't going to be much point in getting $3,000 monitors if you are going to hook them up to a $300 audio interface, so you need to consider both the monitors AND the audio interface. You options for an audio interface for a notebook are limited to Firewire and USB, where as with a tower machine you can opt for a PCI based interface, which is less problematic IMO.
The Mackies are indeed a widely used monitor in EDM, however they have flaws that some find unacceptable. The midrange in the Mackies is very scooped and not clear at all, and this effect is even more pronounced when you A/B them against a set of monitors in a higher price bracket such as the Focal Twins. You can make good quality EDM on just about anything if you know what you are doing, but there is an old saying that "if you cant hear whats wrong with your mix, then how can you fix it?" This is where better quality monitors and DAC comes in the picture.
I really cannot recommend what you should buy because I think it is important that you make that decision for yourself. There are several monitors that you should consider, from several different manufacturers. Here is a suggested list that may help you get started:
Priced from Low to High:
ADAM A7 - $1,150/pair
Mackie HR824 MKII - $1,300/pair
Tannoy Reveal 5A - $1,400/pair
Genalec 8030A - $1,500/pair
JBL LSR4328P - $1,500/pair
Dynaudio Bm5A - $2,000/pair
Focal Solo6 - $2,000/pair
Genalec 8130A - $2,200/pair
ADAM P11A - $2,300/pair
Dynaudio BM15a - $2,400/pair
Genalec 8040A - $2,600/pair
ADAM P22A - $3,000/pair
Focal Twin 6 Be - $3,000/pair
ADAM P33A - $3,400/pair
Klein & Hummel O300 - $4,400/pair
You need to see if you can arrange a demo to try these out before you decide. Most of these are available from the major music retailers (Bongwater, Guitar Crapper, etc.) except the K&H and Focals. Those will have to be ordered through an authorized distributor. List of those can be found on the companies websites. |
You are the man!! Thanks for a comprehensive guide on what to do. You just crushed my world though lol. So seriously you do not recommend me producing on my Macbook pro and to get a Mac Pro...? IF and that is a big IF lol I do decide to get a Mac Pro how should I go about configuring it as I am on the Apple site now and it gives you a bunch of options as to upgrade the processor to 3.0ghz from 2.8. Should I just get the low level Mac Pro or upgrade everything and get a beast...? Now this is going to crush my budget if I really do have to get a new computer. I am thinking of what use I would have for my laptop now other than using it for djing. |
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| Eric J |
| It depends. If you are going to get a new Mac Pro Tower, have you considered what type of audio interface and monitors you are going to get? Also have you factored in the cost of your DAW software or do you already own that? |
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| snatonsb |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric J
It depends. If you are going to get a new Mac Pro Tower, have you considered what type of audio interface and monitors you are going to get? Also have you factored in the cost of your DAW software or do you already own that? |
Well I saw that a fully built mac pro tower with dual hd screens and all is like $5000
Well if I was going to get this Mac wouldn't you say going with Lynx for my audio interface be a good choice...? I am having a hard time choosing between the monitors but the Focals might be the ones I end up choosing. |
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| Eric J |
If your budget is only $6,000, then a $5,000 computer isn't going to leave much room for anything else. You can probably get away with the entry level single processor quad core Mac Pro at $2,799. Buy a non-Apple monitor like a Samsung 226BW for like $500 and then you have about $2,800 left for other stuff.
The Aurora 8 + AESe16 is going to be $2,800, which eats up the rest of your budget without monitors.
My recommendation would be get a MOTU 828 at $1,000 and then pick a set of monitors based on what you have left.
Do not forget to budget in room for software and cables. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by snatonsb
Well I saw that a fully built mac pro tower with dual hd screens and all is like $5000
Well if I was going to get this Mac wouldn't you say going with Lynx for my audio interface be a good choice...? I am having a hard time choosing between the monitors but the Focals might be the ones I end up choosing. |
Personally, I would use the mac book pro for the time being and buy audio equipment.
This is for a few reasons:
1, The Mac Pro's are going to be updated very soon (imminent) which means more processing power for less cash. Buying one now would be crazy.
2, When they do bring one out there will be zero deals on them and even the previous models will probably only have 10% discount, which IMO when you're going for the highest processing power you can afford at that time, don't buy last years model, especially with your budget, as it will date much faster and become underpowered way sooner.
3, The macbook pro, is still a very powerful computer. I would wait until you have pushed that to the limit and can no longer deal with it before upgrading. I use a mid level (new) imac and don't even get close to running out of power on cubase or logic.
4, If you spend the money on very high quality equipment such as the focal twins, a Lynx interface etc, it will last in terms of it's usefulness and functions, far longer than a new computer, and baring in mind you have a very good one now, it doesn't make sense to spend the bulk of your studio investment on something that won;t last as long as the other things you could buy. Just make sure that when it comes to finally upgrading the macbook in X amount of time that all this equipment is compatible (i.e. no PCI etc.)
5, You will also notice IMO, a greater proportional increase in quality of work and workflow by spending this money on the equipment rather than spending the bulk of it on a new, more powerful computer.
Basically. I'm saying it's not the best time to buy a Pro tower, you have a perfectly good computer that is up to the task (at least for the time being), and you will get more benefit (in relative terms) by buying good monitors, soundcard, new synth, nice screen and treating your room.
When time comes just buy a new mac pro tower and swap out the macbook - everything will be set.
BTW, this post is assuming that you have not encoutnered power shortages with your Mac book pro. |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Personally, I would use the mac book pro for the time being and buy audio equipment.
This is for a few reasons:
1, The Mac Pro's are going to be updated very soon (imminent) which means more processing power for less cash. Buying one now would be crazy.
2, When they do bring one out there will be zero deals on them and even the previous models will probably only have 10% discount, which IMO when you're going for the highest processing power you can afford at that time, don't buy last years model, especially with your budget, as it will date much faster and become underpowered way sooner.
3, The macbook pro, is still a very powerful computer. I would wait until you have pushed that to the limit and can no longer deal with it before upgrading. I use a mid level (new) imac and don't even get close to running out of power on cubase or logic.
4, If you spend the money on very high quality equipment such as the focal twins, a Lynx interface etc, it will last in terms of it's usefulness and functions, far longer than a new computer, and baring in mind you have a very good one now, it doesn't make sense to spend the bulk of your studio investment on something that won;t last as long as the other things you could buy. Just make sure that when it comes to finally upgrading the macbook in X amount of time that all this equipment is compatible (i.e. no PCI etc.)
5, You will also notice IMO, a greater proportional increase in quality of work and workflow by spending this money on the equipment rather than spending the bulk of it on a new, more powerful computer.
Basically. I'm saying it's not the best time to buy a Pro tower, you have a perfectly good computer that is up to the task (at least for the time being), and you will get more benefit (in relative terms) by buying good monitors, soundcard, new synth, nice screen and treating your room.
When time comes just buy a new mac pro tower and swap out the macbook - everything will be set.
BTW, this post is assuming that you have not encoutnered power shortages with your Mac book pro. |
If deference to my own advice, I'd just like to suggest that I also believe that this is a sound approach. You should consider this approach as well as my own suggestions. |
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| snatonsb |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Personally, I would use the mac book pro for the time being and buy audio equipment.
This is for a few reasons:
1, The Mac Pro's are going to be updated very soon (imminent) which means more processing power for less cash. Buying one now would be crazy.
2, When they do bring one out there will be zero deals on them and even the previous models will probably only have 10% discount, which IMO when you're going for the highest processing power you can afford at that time, don't buy last years model, especially with your budget, as it will date much faster and become underpowered way sooner.
3, The macbook pro, is still a very powerful computer. I would wait until you have pushed that to the limit and can no longer deal with it before upgrading. I use a mid level (new) imac and don't even get close to running out of power on cubase or logic.
4, If you spend the money on very high quality equipment such as the focal twins, a Lynx interface etc, it will last in terms of it's usefulness and functions, far longer than a new computer, and baring in mind you have a very good one now, it doesn't make sense to spend the bulk of your studio investment on something that won;t last as long as the other things you could buy. Just make sure that when it comes to finally upgrading the macbook in X amount of time that all this equipment is compatible (i.e. no PCI etc.)
5, You will also notice IMO, a greater proportional increase in quality of work and workflow by spending this money on the equipment rather than spending the bulk of it on a new, more powerful computer.
Basically. I'm saying it's not the best time to buy a Pro tower, you have a perfectly good computer that is up to the task (at least for the time being), and you will get more benefit (in relative terms) by buying good monitors, soundcard, new synth, nice screen and treating your room.
When time comes just buy a new mac pro tower and swap out the macbook - everything will be set.
BTW, this post is assuming that you have not encoutnered power shortages with your Mac book pro. |
Thanks also for the advice as this approach sounds very tempting now as I was considering buying a new computer but if you say wait I might consider doing that. So I should go and buy the Focals and audio interface first.
I will also consider what you said too Eric as I am not fully sure on what to do yet. |
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