I was just curious because it seems as though the Irish are against having their national sovereignty completely destroyed
while everyone else has remained pretty silent about the whole thing.
I did a search and didn't find anyone on here posting anything about it.
Does anyone know what's up?
Here's an interesting video that I found from this past July in regards to it:
Here's some more:
Danish MEP Jens-Peter Bonde elaborates:
Trancer-X
Does anyone even know anything about the Lisbon Treaty? Apparently the citizens of Ireland were the only ones who's government gave them a say in it and with that they staunchly voted "NO!"
One of my friends wants to move there now because of it. lol. He says that the Irish seem like the only ones who aren't totally clueless.
I know loads about it! Anything you need to know you come to me!
I thought there had been a (not very popular) thread on the Treaty, or maybe just the EU in general?
BTW, the Irish didn't say no "staunchly" the result was 53.4% no to 46.6% yes. Interestingly, 10% of those voting "no" thought it was a good treaty for Ireland, and 10% voting yes thought it was a bad treaty for Ireland so go figure!
Trancer-X
quote:
Originally posted by George Smiley
I know loads about it! Anything you need to know you come to me!
I thought there had been a (not very popular) thread on the Treaty, or maybe just the EU in general?
BTW, the Irish didn't say no "staunchly" the result was 53.4% no to 46.6% yes. Interestingly, 10% of those voting "no" thought it was a good treaty for Ireland, and 10% voting yes thought it was a bad treaty for Ireland so go figure!
Have you actually read it? I hear that it's 300 pages of amendments which can't be read by themselves.
George Smiley
quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
Have you actually read it? I hear that it's 300 pages of amendments which can't be read by themselves.
Technically every EU treaty following the Maastricht Treaty is just a set of amendments to the treaty that preceded it. So yes, the Lisbon Treaty is just a list of amendments but each time a new treaty is agreed they also produce a consolidated version of the Treaty where all the amendments are put in their place. The British Foreign Office produced a version which you can read here: http://www.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/...ted-eu-treaties
To answer your question, no, I've not read it, but I know what it contains and more importantly what it doesn't contain...
Trancer-X
quote:
Originally posted by George Smiley
Technically every EU treaty following the Maastricht Treaty is just a set of amendments to the treaty that preceded it. So yes, the Lisbon Treaty is just a list of amendments but each time a new treaty is agreed they also produce a consolidated version of the Treaty where all the amendments are put in their place. The British Foreign Office produced a version which you can read here: http://www.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/...ted-eu-treaties
To answer your question, no, I've not read it, but I know what it contains and more importantly what it doesn't contain...
That's impressive! So how are you so well acquainted with it without first having read it?
Isn't it pretty in-depth?
George Smiley
quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
That's impressive! So how are you so well acquainted with it without first having read it?
Isn't it pretty in-depth?
I work for an MEP ;)
Trancer-X
quote:
Originally posted by George Smiley
I work for an MEP ;)
So do you just know it or do you actually understand it?
Is it socialist in nature or not?
George Smiley
quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
So do you just know it or do you actually understand it?
I've spent pretty much the last year and half of my life trying to explain it to people so I know it pretty well!
quote:
Is it socialist in nature or not?
It's hard to put an ideological tag on it because the treaties are just the rule book of how the EU works. The ideology comes when decisions are taken within the boundaries of those rules, rather than the rules themselves
Was there anything particular you wanted to know about the Lisbon Treaty?
jerZ07002
quote:
Originally posted by George Smiley
Interestingly, 10% of those voting "no" thought it was a good treaty for Ireland, and 10% voting yes thought it was a bad treaty for Ireland so go figure!
That means at least 20% of the irish people are stupid! Looks like that plague doesn't just infect the US. ;)
Trancer-X
quote:
Originally posted by George Smiley
Was there anything particular you wanted to know about the Lisbon Treaty?
How is the central bank modeled?
How come they no longer have a dedicated commissioner for each individual member state?
What sort of accountability is there in case of any malfeasance?
What is the major advantages for the countries signing the treaty and can you talk about any of the disadvantages like the apparent erosion of national sovereignty?
George Smiley
quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
How is the central bank modeled?
No idea about the Central Bank! For a start I'm British so it does not apply to us which possibly explains why I've never bothered to look into it!
quote:
How come they no longer have a dedicated commissioner for each individual member state?
Because the EU doesn't have a definite number of members. It started with 6 and now has 27. There are also 3 countries that have applied to join and something like 50+ countries in Europe that I suppose have the potential to join. Commissioners are like heads of individual government departments, and there will be one govt dept for each policy area, so you can see that every time the EU expands there will have been too many Commissioners for each policy area (unless they dilute the existing policy areas)
quote:
What sort of accountability is there in case of any malfeasance?
You mean against corruption?
quote:
What is the major advantages for the countries signing the treaty and can you talk about any of the disadvantages like the apparent erosion of national sovereignty?
Jesus whole books have been written on that!
Well in a nutshell every policy area the EU has responsibility for takes that responsibility away from national governments, and therefore, a bit of sovereignty is lost. That's not automatically a bad thing, and those arguing it is good say it's not "lost" sovereignty but "pooled" sovereignty. It basically wrests around the principle that in some areas, one country acting alone cannot solve certain problems, but acting together many countries can overcome the problem
As for what the major advantages for signing the Treaty is, in very simple terms, the Lisbon Treaty was supposed to streamline the EU to make it more efficient to make sure the decision making process did not grind to a halt with 27 members (when the previous treaties were written for 15 members)
