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The Secret Criminal Society of the Federal Reserve (Part II) (pg. 9)
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
the service they offer is keeping open the line of credit. |
Assuming you're dumb enough to use a card that has an annual fee! ;)
| quote: | | The product they offer is the money they are giving you to make purchases. |
i.e. revolving debt.
| quote: | | I wonder if lines we are drawing are too arbitrary. |
I can't even tell--are you and I arguing the same thing? I'm getting confused! |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Which would also make it harder for him to endorse yes ;) ? But wait a second: |
You're obviously confused. Credit is just another form of debt. I guess you didn't know there are many forms of debt, huh? You're "gotcha" moment, yea, it didn't work...;) |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Assuming you're dumb enough to use a card that has an annual fee! ;) |
while true, i was thinking more along the lines that the company is providing a service of keeping a line open, whether you pay an annual fee or not.
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
i.e. revolving debt. |
i was distinguishing between the amount of debt issued and the amount of debt available.
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
I can't even tell--are you and I arguing the same thing? I'm getting confused! |
perhaps, i was just throwing it out whether a distinction between product and service is even relevant. A service is just the product offered by the service provider. A lawyer's product is his legal knowledge, a financial advisor's product is his financial knowledge, etc... |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
You're obviously confused. Credit is just another form of debt. I guess you didn't know there are many forms of debt, huh? You're "gotcha" moment, yea, it didn't work...;) |
that's actually not true. credit is the thing provided by the lender. Debt is what a person/entity owes to the lender. you don't owe credit, and you don't provide debt. Make sense? |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
that's actually not true. credit is the thing provided by the lender. Debt is what a person/entity owes to the lender. you don't owe credit, and you don't provide debt. Make sense? |
I was wrong. You are right. Still ShoalinZ believes in a debt free utopia, and cites Adam Smith as a premise. I wholeheartedly disagree with his conclusion. |
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| Groundhog Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
Could you source that please? |
http://www.federalreserve.gov/otherfrb.htm
The Google...it's not that hard to understand.
[edit: so I skipped ahead to the next page after posting...both jerz and I had enough brains to know exactly where to go to find the answer, why was that so hard.] |
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| Groundhog Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Assuming you're dumb enough to use a card that has an annual fee! ;) |
I've gotten to credit levels where I agree with this. I've never understood AmEx's model, maybe because I've never had to use the perks. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
I've gotten to credit levels where I agree with this. I've never understood AmEx's model, maybe because I've never had to use the perks. |
amex makes a killing on its corporate accounts. Amex lets a company link the charges into the company's expense system to directly charge clients. i'm pretty sure that amex couldn't survive without the corporate accounts, otherwise no merchant would accept the card with the 5% fee.
i pay an annual fee on my chase continental card, but i get a pretty ridiculous benefit with continental miles. I use my card for everything and pay it off at the end of the month (i've never carried a balance). i've accumulated more than 40,000 miles in one year, which is almost 2 round trip tickets in the US or 1 round trip to europe. It certainly exceeds the annual fee.
EDIT: also, Shakka, you know that corporations pay substantial fees simply to maintain an open line of credit with a bank. I wasn't just talking about personal credit cards. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
I was wrong. You are right. Still ShoalinZ believes in a debt free utopia, and cites Adam Smith as a premise. I wholeheartedly disagree with his conclusion. |
we all have our moments - i unequivocally agree with you. |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
I was wrong. You are right. Still ShoalinZ believes in a debt free utopia, and cites Adam Smith as a premise. I wholeheartedly disagree with his conclusion. |
Nice misrepresentation of my point, unless you missed this one as well. All I was saying was that capitalism, in theory, which bears little resemblance to what is called capitalism today, doesn't have anything to do with out current monetary system or banking system. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
All I was saying was that capitalism...doesn't have anything to do with out current monetary system or banking system. |
how does it NOT? :conf:
banking is the epitome of capitalist endeavour imo. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Nice misrepresentation of my point, unless you missed this one as well. All I was saying was that capitalism, in theory, which bears little resemblance to what is called capitalism today, doesn't have anything to do with out current monetary system or banking system. |
how could capitalism be effective without our current monetary system and banking? Our current banking system allows capital to flow to producers and our fiat monetary system allows the money supply to expand with the growth in the economy. Without increasing money supply, the value of dollar would severely out pace production and ultimately limit the growth of the economy. It all goes hand-in-hand. |
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