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Simplicity vs Complexity
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| Domesticated |
The local dance radio station here has a very fortunate fascination with classic/early house music, and I've been listening to a lot of this stuff recently, and realising how simplistic it is compared to today's music. Much has been said about compression/mastering and the slickness of effects in post 2000 music, but I've heard little said about the actual number of elements in each track.
Although I don't like Orbital a great deal, I think they are a good example of this. A tune like "Chime" really only features a kick, hat, bassline and melody. Or perhaps Frankie Knuckles' "Whistle Song", which is also relatively simplistic, or Plastikman, "Spasktik". These productions seem to have achieved a great deal with very little, perhaps through technical limitations or through a deliberate frame of mind from the producer.
To me, it seems that perhaps expectations back then were far less. Electronic music was new and exciting, and benchmarks had not yet been set. Contrast that to today, where simplicity is almost frowned upon and producers can feel pressured to produce something complex, with a lot of different elements all well mastered and working together.
This was perhaps also responsible for the resurgence of minimal in recent times - producers wanting to get back to basics, though much of this stuff was still quite complex in its own way.
Thoughts, comments?
Is music getting more complex? Is there a pressure to do so? Is complexity a good or bad thing? |
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| nefardec |
i don't think that's true. (that simplicity is frowned upon)
simplicity will never 'go out of fashion'.
it's just easier to make more layers these days and load it with effects, so people do it.
also people are influenced a lot by pop music and its overproduction and have the attention spans of 6 year olds. also, Deejays are lazy and won't play tracks that make them actually USE records..
i think the resurgence in so-called minimal has little to do with it, because in fact much of this stuff is hardly minimalist or simplistic.
complexity for complexity's sake is a bad thing, just like simplicity for simplicity's sake. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
The number of musical elements going at once is certainly increasing. This is probably due partly to better mastering capabilities. Producers can now squeeze a lot more stuff into the final product, and they take that into account even as they're composing.
I think the old simple stuff has a certain "charm" possessed by very few tracks today, and I love it. Paradoxically, a lot of current stuff seems to "get old" and lose its shine faster for me. But I do have a tendency to romanticize the past, so I am kind of suspicious of my own judgments about the "timelessness" of old tracks.
I also think there is definitely a pressure to add lots of elements to a track. You can see this in the producer promo forum, where one of the most common judgments is "it sounds empty" or some variant of that. I think that in the old tracks producers had more limited headroom, so they had to really work with a few elements to make them sound distinctive or attractive. These days it's easier to compensate for a lack of inspiration or interest by overwhelming the listener with a wall of sound. Not everyone does that, of course. There's still lots of good stuff out there, but it is definitely different from old Orbital and Plastikman. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
Actually I think modern dance music is quite simple compared to the period I have the most interest in. This holds true for Orbital as well- Chime may be pretty simple, but many of their tracks, including some made soon after Chime, are pretty densely layered collages of melody. See: Monday, Lush, Forever, Are We Here? and so on...
I think there should be a distinction between compositional complexity and more extraneous complexity. Modern dance records may be more intricately produced than those of twenty years ago, but most of that is just faff that is practically inaudible on the dancefloor. In terms of elements that are actually recognisable and important on the floor, I don't think modern dance music is any more complex than a track like Chime. In fact, big, elaborate records that do a lot melodically seem to be totally out of favour. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
In terms of elements that are actually recognisable and important on the floor, I don't think modern dance music is any more complex than a track like Chime. |
This is also true.
I do most of my listening on headphones, so I tend to notice all the little bits that producers put in today. But on a dance floor older stuff can actually sound more complex because of denser melodic layering. A lot of the complexity now seems to rest in the percussion tracks. |
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| Lunar Phase 7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Actually I think modern dance music is quite simple compared to the period I have the most interest in. This holds true for Orbital as well- Chime may be pretty simple, but many of their tracks, including some made soon after Chime, are pretty densely layered collages of melody. See: Monday, Lush, Forever, Are We Here? and so on...
I think there should be a distinction between compositional complexity and more extraneous complexity. Modern dance records may be more intricately produced than those of twenty years ago, but most of that is just faff that is practically inaudible on the dancefloor. In terms of elements that are actually recognisable and important on the floor, I don't think modern dance music is any more complex than a track like Chime. In fact, big, elaborate records that do a lot melodically seem to be totally out of favour. |
It's coming back though baby. Listen out, it's all about melody this next year or so. |
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| mehta |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
The number of musical elements going at once is certainly increasing. This is probably due partly to better mastering capabilities. Producers can now squeeze a lot more stuff into the final product, and they take that into account even as they're composing.
I think the old simple stuff has a certain "charm" possessed by very few tracks today, and I love it. Paradoxically, a lot of current stuff seems to "get old" and lose its shine faster for me. But I do have a tendency to romanticize the past, so I am kind of suspicious of my own judgments about the "timelessness" of old tracks.
I also think there is definitely a pressure to add lots of elements to a track. You can see this in the producer promo forum, where one of the most common judgments is "it sounds empty" or some variant of that. I think that in the old tracks producers had more limited headroom, so they had to really work with a few elements to make them sound distinctive or attractive. These days it's easier to compensate for a lack of inspiration or interest by overwhelming the listener with a wall of sound. Not everyone does that, of course. There's still lots of good stuff out there, but it is definitely different from old Orbital and Plastikman. |
+ 1 |
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| Domesticated |
Great posts JBJ and S-J.
Completely agree with both of you. |
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| airwalker1 |
from a producer's point of view making things simple is a sure fire way of making your sounds more clear and noticeable ie (you hear more).
i love this type off format because if for a example i make a realy nice riff,why then overcrowd it with other .and i bet if you sit down and play some real music and play some simple edm. you will deff notice its made the same way.
off corse the more complex the track becomes,then more things are then pulld on to build up the track and balance out. |
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| david.michael |
| A place for everything, and everything in its place. |
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| deadrnau5 |
| I choose simplicity. That's why I use 8th notes so much :) |
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| Prototrance |
| quote: | Originally posted by deadrnau5
I choose simplicity. That's why I use 8th notes so much :) |
Oh!! You like stirring it up:D
They will be here soon to get you RUN I SAY.............. RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Back on subject. Simplicity works, thinking back to early stuff, riffs were often stronger, clearer and held your attention. One such example of this would be Three n' One - Reflect.
But I also love ultra produced stuff with loads of layers, but agree this can become too crowded if not pulled off, I'm a massive fan of the guy but Ulrich Schnauss' last album 'Goodbye' sufered from too many layers at times. |
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