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Obama's First Headache is Likely to Be Russia... WTF is going on there (pg. 4)
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| Chryz707 |
| What we need to do is admit Ukraine and Georgia as NATO Members and give them the Kiss my ass! Everyone knows Russia is on a sliding scale down back to where they were, Communism to Capitalism isnt that easy! |
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| Q5echo |
this is real simple, people....
Russia does not want these Patriot batteries next door in Poland. the only thing they feel these batteries threaten is old Soviet pride...something they feel they need at this point in perpetual Russian struggle with itself and the world around them:rolleyes:
the Kremlin did not get anywhere with Bush on getting these sites in Poland removed these last two years so now that Obama has been selected they feel all they have to do is get puffy and nostalgic and Obama will back them off. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
this is real simple, people....
Russia does not want these Patriot batteries next door in Poland. the only thing they feel these batteries threaten is old Soviet pride...something they feel they need at this point in perpetual Russian struggle with itself and the world around them:rolleyes:
the Kremlin did not get anywhere with Bush on getting these sites in Poland removed these last two years so now that Obama has been selected they feel all they have to do is get puffy and nostalgic and Obama will back them off. |
No, the missile defense threatens Russian national security. Its pretty clear its not built against Iranian threat. Iran has clearly stated its targets and intentions if USA attacks it (and they dont involve flying missiles 15000 km over dozens of countries, including quite possibly Russian territory as well). The missile site locations could have made much more sense if the locations been chosen more wisely, like in Turkey, in Israel, etc.
And thats NOT the best way to deal with Iranian "threat" anyway. These missile defense objects are not a guarantee to shoot down missiles anyway, these are not the Iraqi scuds we're talking about. So now Polish and Czech peoples can decide if they want to have their countries being aimed by some serious Russian missiles or use common sense and tell the Americans to back off. There's no threat to them before, and there's no need for escalation now. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
No, the missile defense threatens Russian national security. Its pretty clear its not built against Iranian threat. Iran has clearly stated its targets and intentions if USA attacks it (and they dont involve flying missiles 15000 km over dozens of countries, including quite possibly Russian territory as well). The missile site locations could have made much more sense if the locations been chosen more wisely, like in Turkey, in Israel, etc. |
Mate, first of all, download Google Earth, then tell me whether or not Polish bases would be intercepting missiles from Iran or Russia. Secondly, please tell me how this shield is supposed to defend against attack from 1000s of Russian missiles. Thirdly, does it never occur to you to try and find information to back up your claims?
| quote: | | And thats NOT the best way to deal with Iranian "threat" anyway |
There isn't a threat, it's a preemptive strategy to defend against a possible future threat from Iran obtaining a similar level of missile technology that North Korea has just about achieved (coupled with the fact they are considered close to developing nuclear weapons)
| quote: | | These missile defense objects are not a guarantee to shoot down missiles anyway |
They were declared operational in 2004, but are completely useless. They were only declared operational so Bush could score a political victory before the election. They probably won't even work today (but might very well do at some point in the near future)
| quote: | | So now Polish and Czech peoples can decide if they want to have their countries being aimed by some serious Russian missiles or use common sense and tell the Americans to back off. There's no threat to them before, and there's no need for escalation now. |
Ha! Well Polish people and Czech people hate Russia (understandably) and feel threatened by Russia so they'd probably be all for missile defences which COULD protect Europe from a single Russian missile (altho, again, completely useless against any greater number, and considering Russia has 1000s, yes, completely useless)
But Russia won't fire missiles at Europe (or America for that matter) because it would also be wiped out in a retaliatory nuclear strike by Europe (well, UK and France plus America) |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Shibby
brilliancy. |
since your comments in reply to mine have generally been on the negative side, i'll take that as you being a smart-ass. Given my veiw of your comment, how do you perceive this differently? Since this isn't a philosophical bull question (in which there is no correct answer) i don't expect much substance from you; nevertheless, try to divert from your normal one liner BS response. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Mate, first of all, download Google Earth, then tell me whether or not Polish bases would be intercepting missiles from Iran or Russia. Secondly, please tell me how this shield is supposed to defend against attack from 1000s of Russian missiles. Thirdly, does it never occur to you to try and find information to back up your claims?
There isn't a threat, it's a preemptive strategy to defend against a possible future threat from Iran obtaining a similar level of missile technology that North Korea has just about achieved (coupled with the fact they are considered close to developing nuclear weapons)
They were declared operational in 2004, but are completely useless. They were only declared operational so Bush could score a political victory before the election. They probably won't even work today (but might very well do at some point in the near future)
Ha! Well Polish people and Czech people hate Russia (understandably) and feel threatened by Russia so they'd probably be all for missile defences which COULD protect Europe from a single Russian missile (altho, again, completely useless against any greater number, and considering Russia has 1000s, yes, completely useless)
But Russia won't fire missiles at Europe (or America for that matter) because it would also be wiped out in a retaliatory nuclear strike by Europe (well, UK and France plus America) |
LOL ... Czechs and Poles are AGAINST the American plans. The public, around 50% and more of the peoples of those countries are against it.
Random poll:
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/vie...rong_in_poland/
I dont feel like spending hours arguing you, but ask yourself this question - what will the base's functions will be during the time when Iran is not even a threat (right now)? Of course, the base will monitor and spy on the Russian military, and will be a close eye to monitor any Russian missile launches in Europe. In case of a war, the interceptors will be able to weaken Russia's nuclear deterrent from European side.
The whole argument that the missile shield is to protect against Iranian missile attack is absolutely ridiculous. Its retarded. Iranians failed in their recent mid-range missile tests!!
And you really think USA is done with missile defense? There's a shield in Alaska, now in Poland/Czech Rep., NATO bases pretty much all around Russia. NATO-led war against Russian citizens and peacekeepers. Russia is clearly under direct threat. You may downplay the role of the radar/interceptor system, but in the end, Russian missiles will be aimed at Poland/Czech, and when some missile flies by in that area those countries could turn into deserts.
Missile shield in Israel? How about it, mate? Iran clearly threatened to wipe it off the face of the Earth, recall? Now Iran is being friendly to the new president elect of USA. Iran is not the agressor in the region, USA is. And who is doing all the agressor moves now with the NATO bases and the shield? Makes no sense.
Georgian-Ossetian-Russian war clearly illustrated the trouble that NATO is to Russia. NATO's 1 billion a year influx of arms, training and public support to Georgia has singlehandedly caused the war. And in the end, for the benefit of NATO, who can now bolster to all Europe that Russia is a "threat", while ignoring the fact that Georgian forces viciously attacked Russian peacekeepers with NATO-backed weapons and trained troops. |
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| Magnetonium |
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index....ext=va&aid=9394
| quote: |
June 2008
Czech opposition demands referendum on U.S. missile radar
WARSAW, June 19 (RIA Novosti) - The Czech opposition has gathered over 100,000 signatures in support of a proposal to hold a national referendum on the placement of a U.S. early-warning radar in the Czech Republic, an opposition spokesperson said on Thursday.
The agreement between Prague and Washington, which was officially approved by the Czech government on May 21, is expected be ratified by the end of 2008.
The document will be put forward for ratification to parliament together with a second agreement on deployment terms and conditions for U.S. service personal, which should be ready by early July when U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is due to visit Prague to sign the documents.
Spokeswoman Ivona Novomestską also said the opposition was preparing a protest rally in the center of Prague upon Rice's arrival on July 9-10.
Around two-thirds of the Czech population are against the radar plans, according to an April opinion poll.
There is also considerable opposition to the deployment plan in the Czech parliament, with the leading opposition force, the Social Democratic Party, demanding a public discussion on the issue.
Russia sees the proposed Central European shield as a potential threat to national security, and believes it would destroy the strategic balance of forces in Europe.
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Who gives a about what people think, right? Lets go for something totally irrational and dangerous for world peace and security.
The best way to deal with Iranian "threat" is to talk to Iran and treat it like a respectable country and not like some focking retarded barbarian. But USA cant accept Iran, feelings/pride still hurt from nearly 3 decades ago when it got its butt kicked for terrorizing Iranian people for nearly 4 decades with CIA-installed dictatorship and torture machine. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by HardTranceProd
Un-ing-believable.
Russian president Medvedev has just revealed a plan to extend the presidential term to 6 years 'to guarantee stability.'
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Almost missed this. Kinda recall the one time *cough cough* when people all over were so certain that Putin won't step down as president as were proved wrong. When they were so certain he would suspend Russian Constitution. And so on.
When it actually HAPPENS, then we'll be talking. In the meantime, I am really bored of all the rumours. Including the rumours that Putin has a sex thing for small children. So immature. |
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| guerra-monstru |
| ^Go back to Russia and see whether they can give you the lifestyle you have that Canada gave you. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by guerra-monstru
^Go back to Russia and see whether they can give you the lifestyle you have that Canada gave you. |
I never said living in Russia is better than in Canada. I just cant stand all the b-s. Besides, all your "recommendations" will not help Russia achieve better living conditions and status, because the goals of the Western capitalists is to WEAKEN Russia, like in 1990s, to make it easier to exploit and manipulate ... noone wants a strong Russia, and thats the whole business of this anti-Russian rhetoric and fear in the world media. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
LOL ... Czechs and Poles are AGAINST the American plans. |
You are correct that, in general, Poles and Czechs oppose the missile defence shield, my comments were said in the heat of the moment but the main comment was to tell you Russia is hated in the former Soviet Union and they DO feel threatened by Russia (which explains their desire to join NATO as soon as possible)
| quote: | | I dont feel like spending hours arguing you, but ask yourself this question |
No. I will not have you ask me ANY questions on missile defence until you can demonstrate to me that you understand what missile defence actually involves and not just parrot the line of Russian nationalism. Until you tell me that you accept that it is physically not possible to defend against 1000s of missiles then there is no point debating any further with you. I know that's harsh of me to say so, but there have been countless threads on missile defence and every time you post unsubstantiated opinions on what missile defence is and every single time you show you don't know anything about the technical side, you just parrot Russian nationalist rhetoric without thinking for yourself or listening to other people.
I am telling you, as someone who has done a lot of research on the subject, that this missile defence is not capable, and never will be capable, of defending against a nuclear arsenal the size of Russia's.
Either you can accept what I say, or you can do some research of your own, but until you can accept that fact there is no point you posting anything else on the subject or me responding any more to what you say on the subject.
Once again, sorry to be a prick to you but this is something that is really important if you want to continue to debate about America's missile defence shield (which, incidently, I am opposed to) |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by ********
I don't buy it sorry Mr. Smiley, the ammount of money and pain in this system is not about stopping the non existant Iranian Nuclear Missles from reaching Europe? When was the last time Iran threatened Poland?
http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=171907
When was the last time US had oil companies in Iran?
Dude? Do you actually beleive what you are saying?
If you do, how much did this defence system get budgeted? Both development and operations?
http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=176268 |
Mate, I have no idea what you're trying to say here. I think you have a few misplaced ?s in your first paragraph - it makes no sense.
I have never said this missile shield is to protect Europe from Iran (it could be however). I have never said Iran poses any kind of threat to Poland, in fact, I have never said Iran poses a threat to America (or even Israel, tho they probably have more reason than anyone to feel threatened). I have never said anything about American oil companies being in Iran.
So, in answer to your question, yes, I do believe in what I am saying, the question is, do you KNOW what I'm saying? |
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