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Don't Ask, Don't Tell (pg. 3)
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
i love how you always insert irrelevant fanciful situations to try and support yourself. We invaded Afghanistan for entirely justified reasons. We are occupying the country for two purposes: 1) to bring order and stability to the country (a very just reason), and 2) to continue the justified fight against the taliban and al qaeda. |
Oh, let's not escape your logic here. You basically said occupied Afghanistan is better because they have more rights. Ok, then, wouldn't we be justified in doing the same any other countries we deemed had oppressive governments? I mean, by all means, we should also bring order and stability not just to Afghans right? And continuing the justified fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda huh? Two completely different entities with completely different goals. Great. We'll be fighting in Afghanistan for the next 50 years...
If you didn't know, Al-Qaeda is a bogeyman. Hardly a militant organization. More like a criminal extremist revolutionary group linked worldwide together only by name.
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...highlight=qaeda
| quote: | | Focus on the point. You keep saying 'occupation' like it only brings about bad things. Those are two clear examples of when occupation was a good thing. It doesn't matter how they came about; that's not the point. |
Wow...so that's how you justify the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan? Oh, we're going to make them into the next Germany/Japan, so our occupations are always good! As I said, Germany and Japan declared war on us, and got everything they deserved. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
you really believe that? If that was the case why didn't the taliban just give up Osama when it had the chance? You make enormous leaps in your logic, which leaves gaping holes. |
I don't know. Maybe because America had no evidence with which to present to the government of Afghanistan implicating OBL. You know, when a government asks for the extradition of a criminal, usually the government on the other end asks for evidence. Question...why did the USA wait for 9/11 to seek extradition of OBL?
Anyways, the Taliban did offered to turn him over even without evidence, of course after they were getting bombed to hell. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Wow...so that's how you justify the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan? Oh, we're going to make them into the next Germany/Japan, so our occupations are always good! As I said, Germany and Japan declared war on us, and got everything they deserved. |
You're conveniently forgetting that billions of dollars were also spent by those same allies in Germany/Japan's reconstruction after WWII... |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
You're conveniently forgetting that billions of dollars were also spent by those same allies in Germany/Japan's reconstruction after WWII... |
Please, go on. Is that your justification for our occupying defenseless third world countries?
We're doing it to help them! Right?:rolleyes: |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Oh, let's not escape your logic here. You basically said occupied Afghanistan is better because they have more rights. Ok, then, wouldn't we be justified in doing the same any other countries we deemed had oppressive governments? I mean, by all means, we should also bring order and stability not just to Afghans right? And continuing the justified fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda huh? Two completely different entities with completely different goals. Great. We'll be fighting in Afghanistan for the next 50 years... |
what's with you? we didn't invade afghanistan to make it a better place. As a result of our justified operations against al qaeda and the taliban we have a moral obligation to make afghanistan a better place than when we first invaded.
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Wow...so that's how you justify the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan? Oh, we're going to make them into the next Germany/Japan, so our occupations are always good! As I said, Germany and Japan declared war on us, and got everything they deserved. |
see above for my justification for a continuing occupation of afghanistan. i was against iraq from day 1, but i think it is too late to just pack up and leave until there is a lasting security. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
what's with you? we didn't invade afghanistan to make it a better place. As a result of our justified operations against al qaeda and the taliban we have a moral obligation to make afghanistan a better place than when we first invaded.... |
Which only the Afghans can do. Hell, the country is ruled by bloody war lords. And you expect a liberal democracy to come out of this? Come on now! |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Which only the Afghans can do. Hell, the country is ruled by bloody war lords. And you expect a liberal democracy to come out of this? Come on now! |
who said anything about a liberal democracy? Being a more careful reader will do you well throughout life. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
I don't know. Maybe because America had no evidence with which to present to the government of Afghanistan implicating OBL. You know, when a government asks for the extradition of a criminal, usually the government on the other end asks for evidence. Question...why did the USA wait for 9/11 to seek extradition of OBL? |
when has any country ever applied for extradition of an enemy during a time of war?
edit: and even if the US had applied for extradition prior to 911, the taliban would've said no. what then mate? |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| i would like to add that i think killing people that torture or kill women for going to school/having a job/not wearing a garbage bag is the right thing to do. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
when has any country ever applied for extradition of an enemy during a time of war?
edit: and even if the US had applied for extradition prior to 911, the taliban would've said no. what then mate? |
War? How do you declare war against a criminal organization? How can you say the Taliban would have said no? So what if they did? In the interest of national security, send in the ing Navy Seals. But don't totally destroy an already POS of country. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
War? How do you declare war against a criminal organization? |
dude, hijacking planes and flying them into buildings was merely the most exotic act of war committed by al qaida up until that point. there had been systematic attacks for more than a decade by the usual suspects.
criminal organisations commit crime for money, they dont wage 'holy war' across the globe against various governments over ideology. yes, various extremist operatives might be criminals, but they're not the mob ffs.
al qaida were an autonomous body with control of half the country (if not the big cities) with obvious links across the border as well. yes, they're the new boogie man and people shouldn't lose perspective. but dont argue that they're just the same as any other 'criminal organisation' that might be being infiltrated by the CIA.
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
How can you say the Taliban would have said no? |
because they said no when we asked them to turn al qaida over to the US. and even if they had said yes, they had absolutely no means for doing so.
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
So what if they did? In the interest of national security, send in the ing Navy Seals. |
lol. you watch too many ing movies. yeah, the navy seals. to navigate hundreds of thousands of square kilometers in the mountains against a force 500x their size. hahaha, ahhh man. i do admire your youthful exuberance but sometimes you sound like a twat.
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
But don't totally destroy an already POS of country. |
if that were truly the case then you could never justify fighting a war, ever. im sorry but when you harbour a 'criminal' that has a long history of killing my soldiers and my citizens as well as providing the necessary real estate to train these 'criminals' in military tactics and conditioning then its stiff to you when things go pear-shaped. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
dude, hijacking planes and flying them into buildings was merely the most exotic act of war committed by al qaida up until that point. there had been systematic attacks for more than a decade by the usual suspects.
criminal organisations commit crime for money, they dont wage 'holy war' across the globe against various governments over ideology. yes, various extremist operatives might be criminals, but they're not the mob ffs.
al qaida were an autonomous body with control of half the country (if not the big cities) with obvious links across the border as well. yes, they're the new boogie man and people shouldn't lose perspective. but dont argue that they're just the same as any other 'criminal organisation' that might be being infiltrated by the CIA. |
Excuse, they are Islamic revolutionaries.
| quote: | | because they said no when we asked them to turn al qaida over to the US. and even if they had said yes, they had absolutely no means for doing so. |
What's wrong with asking for evidence? And so what if they say no? Like I said, America has and had the capability of striking inside Afghanistan, Taliban or not.
| quote: | | lol. you watch too many ing movies. yeah, the navy seals. to navigate hundreds of thousands of square kilometers in the mountains against a force 500x their size. hahaha, ahhh man. i do admire your youthful exuberance but sometimes you sound like a twat. |
If you didn't know, America has that kind of capability.
| quote: | | if that were truly the case then you could never justify fighting a war, ever. im sorry but when you harbour a 'criminal' that has a long history of killing my soldiers and my citizens as well as providing the necessary real estate to train these 'criminals' in military tactics and conditioning then its stiff to you when things go pear-shaped. |
I'de agree. But totally destroying a country to get at one guy or a small group, is totally laughable. Look where we are today. An unending insurgency. |
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