|
Our betrayal (pg. 6)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
That generalization was utterly ignorant. I still have all my teeth to grind thank you very much. |
:stongue:
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
ok then. virtually every person that i have met on the intertubes that has advocated a well-regulated militia being necessary for a secure and free state has been american, asides from one random dude in sweden.
hows that? :p |
Much better :D |
|
|
| Frenchie |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
and you are? |
Not stupid. |
|
|
| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
you have to remember though that during the period in which you speak, the vast majority of those fighting were conscripts (unless im mistaken). conscipts are a far cry from the professional outfits modern societies mobilise today. |
Though that is a fair point, I don't really see the difference that truly makes in the end. In conscripted and voluntary militaries alike, you have confused kids with weapons - trained in their use though they may be - judgment is something the individual develops for his or her self, it cannot truly be taught in any sort of boot camp. The unfortunate part is that learning experiences so often come at the cost of human lives - actual people die so that so few can learn and even that seems like a rarity.
Israel is a good example of modern mandatory military service. Look at all of the instigation and the intimidation and the bloodshed that occurs there.
| quote: | | incidentally, did you watch any generation kill? HBO series based on the book from the journalist who travelled with the marines making the first incursions into iraq in 03. good show, thought about you during it actually. |
Nope, I don't really watch any tv. Why did it make you think of me? |
|
|
| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by Frenchie
Not stupid. |
this. |
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Though that is a fair point, I don't really see the difference that truly makes in the end. In conscripted and voluntary militaries alike, you have confused kids with weapons - trained in their use though they may be - judgment is something the individual develops for his or her self, it cannot truly be taught in any sort of boot camp. The unfortunate part is that learning experiences so often come at the cost of human lives - actual people die so that so few can learn and even that seems like a rarity.
Israel is a good example of modern mandatory military service. Look at all of the instigation and the intimidation and the bloodshed that occurs there. |
um, but isn't israel a rather poor example of fighting men going out of their way to "shoot lights" because its easier than shooting people?
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Nope, I don't really watch any tv. Why did it make you think of me? |
your recent posts concerning rememberance day and the military. there's some pretty awful examples of civilian killing in the mini-series, and it brought your comments to mind.
(actually, there's heaps of homos in it which naturally made me think of you). |
|
|
| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Frenchie
Not stupid. |
hey there sidekick |
|
|
| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
um, but isn't israel a rather poor example of fighting men going out of their way to "shoot lights" because its easier than shooting people? |
Maybe I misinterpreted your point, then. I thought you were trying to somehow establish that soldiers who volunteered for their services are somehow more responsible with their weapons than those who were mandated to serve - a point I most certainly did not understand.
| quote: | | your recent posts concerning rememberance day and the military. there's some pretty awful examples of civilian killing in the mini-series, and it brought your comments to mind. |
Ahh...
| quote: | | (actually, there's heaps of homos in it which naturally made me think of you). |
Homos, you say? Alright, maybe I will have to check this show out. |
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Maybe I misinterpreted your point, then. I thought you were trying to somehow establish that soldiers who volunteered for their services are somehow more responsible with their weapons than those who were mandated to serve - a point I most certainly did not understand. |
no no. that people conscripted into war are less likely to be "OK" with shooting people, as opposed to those that form part of a professional war machine. |
|
|
| zoogla |
 |
|
|
| Fledz |
, I just wrote up a whole damn discussion and now lost it because I went back and then click on another link! :mad:
Anyway, here's what's left at least:
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Am I saying that guns are evil in the traditional sense? No. Should they be taken away from everyone in an effort to regress humans back to some peaceful state? Hah. All I am saying is they are far more than tools to an end – they are irresponsibility incarnate. They are chaos at its most influential state, and their accelerated destructive capabilities in the hands of anyone who has a will to use them against another human being is fear enough to arm oneself the same, the cycle of bloodshed continued, our individuality giving rise merely to the boundaries by which our relative mortality and contribution can stand up to a hollow point. |
No, and that's where I completely disagree. We invented a method to not have to do this. You know what it is? Laws, regulations, morals, law enforcement agencies and the military. They work fine, or at least everywhere outside of the USA they do.
| quote: | | guns don't kill people; people kill people |
Well technically this is correct. If we took the guns away though, this problem would be rare and that's something that the majority of Americans it seems just can't grasp.
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
I don't trust the state to have a monopoly on power. That's what this country was founded on. Power is shared by the people and the state. So the state cannot use abuse its power because the people are armed and therefore, have power themselves to counter tyranny. |
Read this: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...d=&pagenumber=1
Then read this: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...d=&pagenumber=1
Then for the love of God do us all a favour and get a Vasectomy. |
|
|
| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
, I just wrote up a whole damn discussion and now lost it because I went back and then click on another link! :mad:
Anyway, here's what's left at least:
No, and that's where I completely disagree. We invented a method to not have to do this. You know what it is? Laws, regulations, morals, law enforcement agencies and the military. They work fine, or at least everywhere outside of the USA they do.
Well technically this is correct. If we took the guns away though, this problem would be rare and that's something that the majority of Americans it seems just can't grasp.
Read this: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...d=&pagenumber=1
Then read this: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...d=&pagenumber=1
Then for the love of God do us all a favour and get a Vasectomy. |
No, I'm going to have 10 babies.
I just don't trust my government to have a complete monopoly of power. That's it. |
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
No, I'm going to have 10 babies, as soon as they develop man on man procreation. |
fixed. |
|
|
|
|
