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First track... not really finished yet at all but anyway[psy/goa]
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| Darkarbiter |
Ok so in the past few weeks I've been working on a track... and mostly been learning synth programming and stuff beforehand. It started off as ambient/classic trance with a few nice pads and arps, however I've added in a kick and modulated basssline which after a few listens I think actually somewhat works quite well with the stuff I'd allready done (although I've removed the second part of the pad bits... and I might not end up using them at all, or maybe in a breakdown later). Although I think I need to tweak the overall sound of the arps a fair bit. I also need to put in a main melody around 1.10... however the modulation of the bass shows where what moods/stuff I want to take the track in for the next minute so I didn't only render it to around the 1 minute mark.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/10/29/328958/firstsongwip2.mp3
Anyway... just some feedback... and hopefully I'll get more done today :)
[edit] After listening to the track without the arps, I think removing them entirely is actually a good idea. I like the contrast that those dark sounds after the pads give in contrast to the uplifting pads.... this'll probably be around the 1-1.30 mark on the final track ofcourse... intro will need to be done seperately.
before:http://www.filefactory.com/file/79e...irstsongwip_wav
Latest: http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/10/29/328958/firstsongwip3.mp3 |
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| Sonic_c |
| Takes too long on filefactory unless ur a pro user sorry goin to bed. Do a speedyshare link |
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| Domesticated |
Not bad. Before I give any feedback, I just want to say that I wish I'd had the opportunity to get into music as young as you have. After school finishes, most of us don't have time to sit around making music and the like nearly as much as we want to. You've got a chance to use that time and make something of it. :)
The tune...production seems fine. I don't know much myself, but I recognise that you're having trouble making something with structure and coherency. The clip starts pretty suddenly and doesn't really go anywhere. Remember that most tracks start less intense, build, and then come back down. Apply this to your production by starting with basic elements and adding more as you go along.
For psy-trance, the kick and the bass are probably the most important things. Try working these out before anything else, and make sure they're good. |
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| Darkarbiter |
Thanks for the feedback.
I've done a lot of work today... hell I even got the change between the intro somewhat (compared to extremely jumpey) smooth after a lot of work. It seems I spend a lot of time deciding which parts go in what order, which also happens to be a lot of fun too, so thats not a problem.
I've added an intro and a few new elements for it as well as a closed hi hat a bit later. Still very much needs a lead element just after the bass+kick drop in, but I'll work on that in my next session. The first bit is kind've dark/sinister... but I reckon with the right melody the slightly fun/cheesy bassline+kick could work interestingly in the tracks overall mood.
link to version 3 (right click save as-able :) ) |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
This is definitely better than my first efforts at making trance.
Some suggestions: The percs and pads sound very "dry" right now. Try adding some reverb or delay to them. Also, add some more percs and pan them to the left or right to give the track more stereo width. I think you should put in some more melodic elements, too, but I assume you're already planning on that...
Love the modulation on the bassline. Nice and squelchy. :D |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| What programs are you using, by the way? |
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| Darkarbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
What programs are you using, by the way? |
Reason :gsmile:
I'm using the psy factor refill.
The bassline's programming I got from a tutorial on how to make a psy bassline on the subtractor, the other bass sounds are some seriously nasty malstrom patches from the psyfactor refill that go over my head. The pads I made myself and that weird sound later on in the thor. The open hi hat is a 909 hat sent down from c to a (writing things in a minor to make things easier) and eqed so its nice and acidey, the half open hi hat is from the 909 as well, and eqed also. At first I had it quite just above the center in freq wise heavy, but it conflicted with the open hi hat, it's now got a resonounce quite high and most of the mids removed slightly to the left of the center eq wise.
I actually came accross the whole bassline squelchy thing by attempting to eq it, turning up the gain on full of one of the parameters... and then thinking wow that sounds awesome, how about I move it around a bit to try and get the best result (using the same technique as I used on my open hi hat) and then realising now awesome it sounds when you move it around, playing around for 10 minutes and then being like I must implement this into my track. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Darkarbiter
Reason :gsmile: |
Nice, that's one of my main tools for production. Been using it for five years now, so if you have any questions I'd be glad to help out.
:) |
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| Darkarbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
I think you should put in some more melodic elements, too, but I assume you're already planning on that... |
Yep, that'll be next step.
Since this wasn't terribly clear: heres the history of the track
1. make pad sounds and play around with... decide to write a track in a minor (knowing that that means I don't have to worry about black keys). 136 bpm also,
2. Take ages to write 2 phrases of melody with pads, making sure to try and keep the progression as interesting as possible with just the pads, concidering it's certainly possible.
3. Add in 2 octave arpeggios
4. Write the second pair of phrases for the pads... with square waves instead of saw oscillaters, and a lower cutoff
5. Set up one of the sliders (I seem to much prefer them to knobs for automation or anything at all) on my midi keyboard to the cutoff of the arps, and sort of freestyle along with the pad melody... trying to get a nice implied melody for the as of the previous step 4 phrase duration of the song. Get sort of worried about how a kick is going to fit into all of this.
6. Add another 4 phrases with a square wave pad with a lower cutoff then the others previously. Sounds sad/epic but idk maybe goes on a bit, although I did spend ages to make the notes interesting.
7. Got somewhat bored and end up chucking in a psy bassline. Then a mid heavy psy kick (from psyfactor). I put the kick on a 16th note pattern, and then add the extra note to the psy bassline and change the octaves a bit on the other notes in the last bar on the 16th note cycle to make things sound interesting (bearing in mind the whole full on psy pattern+adsr's etc is meant for 145bpm not 136). Also chuck in a heavily eqed 909 open hi hat on the 3rd note on each bar, which drops out on the 16th note bar. Add a compressor to the kick to make it sound a little more solid/energetic and a little less thick too.
? Somewhere around here, made that sharp delayed acid sound you hear near the end. Didn't implement it or have a place for it, but I'm leaving it at the end for now until I find a better place for it.
8. Realise it doesn't actually sound that bad with the pads and stuff as well although with the arps it sounds a little bit muddy or at the very least needs changing. Find out how awesome the psy bass sounds modulated. Removed 4 phrases of pads added in step 6.
9. Remove arps
10. Realise it needs an intro so actually move the starting pads to the start and everything else way back. Add in a two note on the second bar kick pattern. It starts after 2 bars... thinking really hard in terms of pacing and building up energy.
11. Removed the second phrase of the pads and replace.
12. Realise an interesting idea to transition into the main bit after intro is if the kick did a 16th note just before the main bit started. Failing a better way a kick combinater+matrix+compressor was added just for that one bar.
13. Off base (I'm sure theres a better word for it) added that starts a phrase in, 2 phrases before the main bit starts, the kick drops out and this is now on the 1st and third note instead of just the third
14. Transition could still be better, the hi hat now starts 2 bars before the main bit. I realise having the kick+main bassline AND hi hat all coming in at the same time was a bit messy, I've removed this a lot by first of all having a bass that sounds somewhat similar coming in earlier and now with the hi hat I think it's pretty good.
15. Added in a half closed hi hat to be on the 1st note (at the same time as the kick) every bar.
16. Reduced the frequency in half... now only every 1st/third etc bar. Also made the resonance on it's eq quite a bit higher and removed lower mid frequencies to further reduce conflicts with open hi hat. Totally got the closed (or in this case allmost entirely) hi hat on the kick to build energy from infected mushroom. Still feels a little silly having it the whole way through. Also added in that third lot of pads with the more heavily bass not as well. At first I was thinking this is getting a bit repetitive. It was a d and f pair of notes, so what I did was added another d two octaves down, which I think makes things a bit more interesting. I also thought the whole adsr of it sounded too similar to the first bits(the first bits being saw and the second square wasn't enough difference) lot and it was getting a bit repetitive and needed change, so I settled upon adding a wobbley lfo as you can hear.
16. Moved things around a little bit later on (I moved those woawoa chee chee sounds back a bar) and made the closed hi hat start about a third of the way through the main section and end 2/3 of the way through.
???
17?. Main melody... dark needed to counteract the slightly cheesy nature of bassline and such, but along with the intro could create a very interesting mood. Will work on next oppertunity.
I think I've been working on this a month or so now, usually only when I'm in the mood and have the oppertunity (no one else is home i.e.) so thats the main problem. So many days I've just woken up and hardly felt like doing anything, let alone producing or w/e.
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Some suggestions: The percs and pads sound very "dry" right now. Try adding some reverb or delay to them. Also, add some more percs and pan them to the left or right to give the track more stereo width.
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I dunno about panning to the left or right or extra perc generally, but I might make use of the whole delay to one side then the other thing. (which I'm thinking you'd do by duping the sound up and having each side panned to one side and the frequency of each half of what you'd want if it was only a single thing). Some extra reverb might be useful though.
Hmm the pads sound dry? might try out some reverb on some of them. I haven't really got reverb fully down yet.
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
This is definitely better than my first efforts at making trance.
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Thanks I guess
Also, theres a very interesting trick on the back of the thor that is highly underrated. You set an lfo to the lowest frequency (0.07hz or something) and to the stepped random waveform (i.e. the first and more square one) and to key lock. You then route that to an oscillater's pitch... and you get simulated analog drift. 8/9 and you get the warm 90s feel... 20ish sounds more 80s old tangerine dream. It sounds absolutely awesome, add it to pads... and it makes the rising up sound from the freq cutoff going up feel more like climbing a hill... and less robotic, add it to arps and it makes them sound like a piano player repeating something, instead of just the EXACT same thing over and over again, obviously its going to get repetitive after a while as well, but it really adds a lot imo. I've got it routed to the 3 oscillaters on my pads with 11/8/20(which creates an interesting effect). You can also use it as an alternative to pitching things up/down 1% to add phatness (and avoid that phasing sound), since when you set it to keylock the lfo generates different random patterns for each oscillater. Also required to make that awesome very long filter gradually rising up pad sound with high resonance.
Definitely underrated as mentioned, its funny... theres a classic trance arp sound, and it isn't even used for that. |
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